Summit Point crash...
04-05-2013, 08:30 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Yorkville IL
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Apparently a pole impaled the instructor from below in a very bad way after the car flipped several times.
It was a poor error but a novice error - and very bad luck for the instructor. The car went through significant layers of track safety.
I just completed the NASA Instructor Clinic at VIR. I have not 100% decided but I think that was enough for me.
My friend Paul has instructed countless times. I think I would much rather preach safety equipment (brake pads) in the paddock rather then have that helpless feeling in the right seat.
It was a poor error but a novice error - and very bad luck for the instructor. The car went through significant layers of track safety.
I just completed the NASA Instructor Clinic at VIR. I have not 100% decided but I think that was enough for me.
My friend Paul has instructed countless times. I think I would much rather preach safety equipment (brake pads) in the paddock rather then have that helpless feeling in the right seat.
04-05-2013, 10:01 AM
#22
Team Owner
What turn, group/session, what error, what debris? Always good to learn. I feel safest on the straight before the braking zone so, without shifting, I wonder how that could have been an issue. Sounds like maybe an un-smooth jerk of the wheel at high speed to avoid a piece of debris.
Hope the instructor is ok. I owe my DE's to one of those guys; I didn't get much out of my first NCM VIR.
Hope the instructor is ok. I owe my DE's to one of those guys; I didn't get much out of my first NCM VIR.
04-05-2013, 11:13 AM
#23
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Pinehurst North Carolina
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Sorry to disagree Ken, and by no means to begin a discussion, but that area of the track at Summit has little protection considering the speed. Only a small 4 deep tire wall, embankment with a wooden fence beyond in front of the reachable woods. No Armco.
vz
vz
04-05-2013, 12:46 PM
#24
Supporting Vendor
Best wishes to all involved however.
Last edited by KNSBrakes; 04-05-2013 at 01:43 PM.
04-05-2013, 01:08 PM
#25
******RETIRED ARMY******
Member Since: Jun 2009
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St. Jude Donor '12
After being on the track many times and considering it a home track 45 minutes from home. I can only think this happened after getting past the rumble strip. There is a deep rock sand pit to slow the cars down there before getting into the tire wall and fence area. Even though this is a terrible thing to happen jerking the car back onto track (mistake) is where most get into trouble.
Turn 3 is the one that has me on edge. Slipping out there is dangerous small pebble pit and then trees. The dip in 9 and not on gas is where I have seen most of the cars get into trouble. Seems to send most to the inside wall backwards.
I have been going to Summit for the last 4 years and have only seen 2 accidents in turn 10 during NASA events. (1) was a Vette that went in hot and didn't try to over correct, went into the pebble pit and then into the wall. (2) was a young driver in HPDE-1 over corrected and went into the wall. Both drivers and instructor were OK. (3) Last year a Vette hit a deer on the front straight past the start finish line.
I have seen some go off there and keep it straight until the car is slowed and they can come back on safely. The safety at the track is not skimped on and I know the corner workers are some of the best and do both SCCA and NASA events. Most of them travel all over the East Coast.
Turn 3 is the one that has me on edge. Slipping out there is dangerous small pebble pit and then trees. The dip in 9 and not on gas is where I have seen most of the cars get into trouble. Seems to send most to the inside wall backwards.
I have been going to Summit for the last 4 years and have only seen 2 accidents in turn 10 during NASA events. (1) was a Vette that went in hot and didn't try to over correct, went into the pebble pit and then into the wall. (2) was a young driver in HPDE-1 over corrected and went into the wall. Both drivers and instructor were OK. (3) Last year a Vette hit a deer on the front straight past the start finish line.
I have seen some go off there and keep it straight until the car is slowed and they can come back on safely. The safety at the track is not skimped on and I know the corner workers are some of the best and do both SCCA and NASA events. Most of them travel all over the East Coast.
04-05-2013, 01:51 PM
#26
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Pinehurst North Carolina
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Initially I refrained from posting any details about this very bad incident, however I am beginning to get many emails on the subject, and in an effort to head off any misinformation or speculation, I will provide some factual details for you.
The student and instructor in a late model Mustang after entering the front straight, the student swerves to avoid a small piece of flying debris, drops two wheels off drivers left just after the start bridge. Overcorrects to return to the track, the cars continues across the track, goes off drivers right hitting the drainage ditch just before the first crossover road, then contacting a four deep tire wall, over and up a bank, rolled several times taking out sections of wooden fence polls and boards, before coming to rest just past the SCCA sound. Fence post (four by four wood post) comes through the floor, and passenger seat, impaling through the instructor exiting out the instructor's abdomen. Instructor is life flighted to Fairfax Hospital. Serious surgery, no updates. Student cuts and bruises.
FYI, despite one of the fastest sections of track, no Armco for protection.
vz
The student and instructor in a late model Mustang after entering the front straight, the student swerves to avoid a small piece of flying debris, drops two wheels off drivers left just after the start bridge. Overcorrects to return to the track, the cars continues across the track, goes off drivers right hitting the drainage ditch just before the first crossover road, then contacting a four deep tire wall, over and up a bank, rolled several times taking out sections of wooden fence polls and boards, before coming to rest just past the SCCA sound. Fence post (four by four wood post) comes through the floor, and passenger seat, impaling through the instructor exiting out the instructor's abdomen. Instructor is life flighted to Fairfax Hospital. Serious surgery, no updates. Student cuts and bruises.
FYI, despite one of the fastest sections of track, no Armco for protection.
vz
04-05-2013, 02:20 PM
#27
Safety Car
Member Since: May 2006
Location: Northern Virginia
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St. Jude Donor '08
Hope the instructor makes a full and speedy recovery.
I have driven Summit Point Main on several occasions. At first glance it looks like there are a lot of run off areas but closer inspection reveals that the ground is very uneven and full of ruts. Catch a tire the wrong way and you are in deep trouble!!
The comment about someone hitting the deer near T1 made me remember seeing a deer head off to the left of T1 when I was there last July. Did see what I thought was a muskrat on the track between T2 and T3. I just slowed the car down and beeped my horn and waited for the little guy to get off the track. Let the track crew know he was out that way so they could let the other drivers know.
I have driven Summit Point Main on several occasions. At first glance it looks like there are a lot of run off areas but closer inspection reveals that the ground is very uneven and full of ruts. Catch a tire the wrong way and you are in deep trouble!!
The comment about someone hitting the deer near T1 made me remember seeing a deer head off to the left of T1 when I was there last July. Did see what I thought was a muskrat on the track between T2 and T3. I just slowed the car down and beeped my horn and waited for the little guy to get off the track. Let the track crew know he was out that way so they could let the other drivers know.
04-05-2013, 02:20 PM
#28
Drifting
After reading the above all that I can say is my thoughts and prayers for the instructor and his survival. I hate to say this but I have a feeling that if he is able to make it through, that is going to be a permanent life altering type of injury. Really puts into perspective the dangers of what we are doing and also makes me realize that no matter how well prepared you think that you and your car might be, there are simply some things that you can not prepare for. Even if the car had a full cage, fire system and everything else how do you prepare for the chances of a 4x4 post coming through the bottom of your car???
04-05-2013, 03:35 PM
#29
Safety Car
Best wishes to the instructor...
You instructors got ***** of titanium to do what you do....
and THANK YOU for doing it just isn't enough when something like this happens....
You instructors got ***** of titanium to do what you do....
and THANK YOU for doing it just isn't enough when something like this happens....
04-05-2013, 03:45 PM
#30
Pro
Initially I refrained from posting any details about this very bad incident, however I am beginning to get many emails on the subject, and in an effort to head off any misinformation or speculation, I will provide some factual details for you.
The student and instructor in a late model Mustang after entering the front straight, the student swerves to avoid a small piece of flying debris, drops two wheels off drivers left just after the start bridge. Overcorrects to return to the track, the cars continues across the track, goes off drivers right hitting the drainage ditch just before the first crossover road, then contacting a four deep tire wall, over and up a bank, rolled several times taking out sections of wooden fence polls and boards, before coming to rest just past the SCCA sound. Fence post (four by four wood post) comes through the floor, and passenger seat, impaling through the instructor exiting out the instructor's abdomen. Instructor is life flighted to Fairfax Hospital. Serious surgery, no updates. Student cuts and bruises.
FYI, despite one of the fastest sections of track, no Armco for protection.
vz
The student and instructor in a late model Mustang after entering the front straight, the student swerves to avoid a small piece of flying debris, drops two wheels off drivers left just after the start bridge. Overcorrects to return to the track, the cars continues across the track, goes off drivers right hitting the drainage ditch just before the first crossover road, then contacting a four deep tire wall, over and up a bank, rolled several times taking out sections of wooden fence polls and boards, before coming to rest just past the SCCA sound. Fence post (four by four wood post) comes through the floor, and passenger seat, impaling through the instructor exiting out the instructor's abdomen. Instructor is life flighted to Fairfax Hospital. Serious surgery, no updates. Student cuts and bruises.
FYI, despite one of the fastest sections of track, no Armco for protection.
vz
04-05-2013, 08:03 PM
#31
Race Director
Lots of dangerous tracks....CMP, a "modern" facility, has easily reachable Trees at half of the corners (and friends here on the forum have been through them). Makes me feel that concrete, a la Rd Atlanta, is indeed safer to hit than natural obstacles!
Prayers for the injured.....but I still feel safer at the track than on the street 90% of the time!
Prayers for the injured.....but I still feel safer at the track than on the street 90% of the time!
04-05-2013, 08:22 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
After a couple of years of close calls and oh-**** moments in the passengers seat (mostly mechanical issues), we took a vote at my house and we all decided that instructing wasn't worth the risk.
Even with a 99.9% chance of nothing happening, that .01% chance could be devastating to my family (assuming they actually do like me
).
Even with a 99.9% chance of nothing happening, that .01% chance could be devastating to my family (assuming they actually do like me
).
04-05-2013, 09:24 PM
#33
Race Director
wow i am getting sick to my stomach reading about the instructors injuries may god help him and his recoveries that is horrible, i cant imagine the pain he is in or the pain his family is feeling either.
sadly doesnt sound like any protection could have helped from that injury
sadly doesnt sound like any protection could have helped from that injury
04-06-2013, 08:52 PM
#35
Drifting
A few years back we lost an instructor at CMP due to a "freak" accident where a Porsche ended up in the woods and the resulting intrusion into the cabin proved fatal to the instructor. We all know the risk when we jump in the passenger seat but its the love for the sport and the passion to help others build their skills that keeps us there. Prayers out to this guy and his family ....
04-07-2013, 08:39 PM
#37
Safety Car
Initially I refrained from posting any details about this very bad incident, however I am beginning to get many emails on the subject, and in an effort to head off any misinformation or speculation, I will provide some factual details for you.
The student and instructor in a late model Mustang after entering the front straight, the student swerves to avoid a small piece of flying debris, drops two wheels off drivers left just after the start bridge. Overcorrects to return to the track, the cars continues across the track, goes off drivers right hitting the drainage ditch just before the first crossover road, then contacting a four deep tire wall, over and up a bank, rolled several times taking out sections of wooden fence polls and boards, before coming to rest just past the SCCA sound. Fence post (four by four wood post) comes through the floor, and passenger seat, impaling through the instructor exiting out the instructor's abdomen. Instructor is life flighted to Fairfax Hospital. Serious surgery, no updates. Student cuts and bruises.
FYI, despite one of the fastest sections of track, no Armco for protection.
vz
The student and instructor in a late model Mustang after entering the front straight, the student swerves to avoid a small piece of flying debris, drops two wheels off drivers left just after the start bridge. Overcorrects to return to the track, the cars continues across the track, goes off drivers right hitting the drainage ditch just before the first crossover road, then contacting a four deep tire wall, over and up a bank, rolled several times taking out sections of wooden fence polls and boards, before coming to rest just past the SCCA sound. Fence post (four by four wood post) comes through the floor, and passenger seat, impaling through the instructor exiting out the instructor's abdomen. Instructor is life flighted to Fairfax Hospital. Serious surgery, no updates. Student cuts and bruises.
FYI, despite one of the fastest sections of track, no Armco for protection.
vz
The instructor in question is one of my dearest friends, the driver of the roush was friends with the instructor and this was not his first event.
A couple of us went to visit the instructor, look at the car, and survey the skid marks.
The instructor is still touch and go every day, I know all the details but, but will not post them out of respect for his family. His family has had to make many difficult decisions that will affect him for the rest of his life
Please everyone pray for him, he is one of the nicest guys anyone could meet. He was a regular at summit and VIR and even owned a C6z06 for some time. The instructor was an amazing driver, I have let him drive my car many times, in the dry and wet and I have been in his race car many times.
This kind of stuff really makes you think about the choices you make when tracking a car, and how much respect everyone should show instructors.
Please everyone say a prayer and give your loved ones a hug tonight.
Regards Nando
04-07-2013, 11:03 PM
#38
Drifting
It is always sad to hear of news like this, my thoughts and prayers are with the family, and his many friends.
It sounds like there are many of us on this forum that know the instructor, but regardless, it is clear that he is a lifelong track enthusiast. I am praying that he will recover.
It sounds like there are many of us on this forum that know the instructor, but regardless, it is clear that he is a lifelong track enthusiast. I am praying that he will recover.
