DarkMastyr

Well if the RC6E will last twice as long, but doesn't cost twice as much, then it seems like it has more value. RC6E runs $353.63 while XP20 is $251. A current set of XP12 is $233. Not including the forum discount.

sebdavid

Definitely the RC6E offers better value (for me, your mileage may vary). My point was that perhaps the XP20 would offer even more value, for only a few more dollars if you get significantly longer life then perhaps there's no need to go to the CL pad. I never tried the XP20 so I don't know.

DarkMastyr

I agree if the XP20 lasts significantly longer than the XP12, then it might be worth it. It seems that nobody has a really good quantitative answer as to whether that is actually the case.

taken19

Just got thru my first set of XP-20's. only got 3 track days on them with R6's. got 3-4 days out of my old 10's on street tires but that was much less aggressive driving. I would say that drive relatively hard for a HDPE only guy.

I also noticed the front rotors were a bit grooved as well. Didn't notice that with the XP-10's. I'm gonna call Carbotech in the morning to see if that is normal as it was primarily on the outside surface only, not so much on the inside. I do run in Comp mode and do get into AH and ABS from time to time each session. That could be contributing to the grooving. I guess I will find out in the morning.

DansBlkonBlkZ06

I went to CMP last weekend, which is a track that is very tough on brake pads. I wound up getting 3 days total (1 day VIR, 2 days CMP) out of the XP-20 (12 track sessions and 3 time trials). I think I could have gotten another day out of them if I swapped pads at end of day since I had some bad pad taper on the front inside pads. I had 4 mm left on one end and down to 1 mm on other end. As far as rotor wear, I noticed the heat cracking (NAPA made in China rotors) was much less than the XP-12s exhibit, but there was some grooving in the rotor.
Overall, I like the pad and will likely use them again. They do not have the initial bite that the XP-12 has but have a consistent smooth braking feel that took me a while to get used to. They cost a little more, but I'm getting an extra day use and they are easier on my rotors.

brkntrxn

2 days at CMP = 4 days at VIR/RA

I have gone through a new set of XP12s on A6s in two days at CMP.

C6psi

So up front I used the XP12's (10's in the back) for 5 track days total and had maybe 15% left before swapping to 20's up front. Got a total of 7.5 hours/3 track days on the XP20's before they were 100% gone and still using the 10's on the back @ 20%.

I have only used the Stoptech pads that came with my ST-60/ST-40 kit and the Carbotech. The 12's were better than the ST's and the 20's were better than the 12's. I really liked the bite and braking force with the 20's and will continue to use them. The 20's over the 12's gave me the impression of "that's what I was looking for" in the brakes.

Again, I have not sampled tons of other pads.

jtmck

Anyone else use this much front pad to rear pad?
How about upping the rear pad?

JeremyGSU

Yes. I probably get 3 days out of my fronts and 5 out of my back.

C6psi

If your speaking in terms of compound that is my plan. Up the rears to XP12's and stick with the XP20's up front. Just wanted to run thru the rears before swapping.

NemesisC5

Subscribed......

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

[QUOTE=C6psi;1587457783]So up front I used the XP12's (10's in the back) for 5 track days total and had maybe 15% left before swapping to 20's up front. Got a total of 7.5 hours/3 track days on the XP20's before they were 100% gone and still using the 10's on the back @ 20%.

I have only used the Stoptech pads that came with my ST-60/ST-40 kit and the Carbotech. The 12's were better than the ST's and the 20's were better than the 12's. I really liked the bite and braking force with the 20's and will continue to use them. The 20's over the 12's gave me the impression of "that's what I was looking for" in the brakes.

Again, I have not sampled tons of other pads.[/QUOTE

Happy to hear

yakisoba

If you up the rear pad, watch for early ABS/lockup in the rear. If you have large rear downforce, you can go up a bit on rear bias (my experience) but otherwise, stick with light pads in the back. XP20/XP8 is not bad, as weird as it sounds.

jtmck

The reason I asked the question earlier is:
my experience is just the opposite.
An original Corvette has the same pad compound front and rear.
It stops pretty good.

People put lighter compounds on the rear and complain about rear lockup, which I think is not happening.
I find the rear is doing nothing with the light pads, and the ABS is trying to keep up at the front.
With no brakes at the rear, no anti-lift in the lower arm, the rear comes up and feels loose. This is with lighter rear pads.

My personal C5 has hawk 60 front and hawk 70 rear.

Last weekend, a driver had this rear loose complaint.
He had Hawk 70 front and Hawk 10 rear and felt the rear was loose in braking.We unpluged a wire and tested with no ABS and there was NO braking at the rear. The front tires slid 8 feet in the gravel and the rear tires were still turning.
We installed Hawk 70 on the rear. He now had 70's front and rear.
After a warm up on the paddock road, the front slid 2 feet, the rear 1/2 foot.

He said he felt the difference in the first corner on the track. He said it felt like the car had twice the braking it had before.

I had determined this on my car, but was not sure it applied to other cars (mine is a little different) .

I was happy to see it work on a conventional C5.

Just my 2.5 cents.....

C6psi

I will have to agree with you here...with the Stoptech compound on the car @ the track it tracked straighter upon hard braking but with less stopping capabilities than the Carbo's. They were the same compound on all 4 corners. With the XP20 front and XP10 on rear I could fell the car getting a little loose and not tracking as straight in some braking zones. I will be @ Barber in two weeks with the XP 20/12 combo and follow up with my thoughts on them as well.

Rexracer77

Has anyone used Porterfield pads on their car? I have used the R4-E on my endurance car and gotten 66 hours (yes hours) out of 1 set. Granted its a 2400lbs, 4cyl, but that's what 26+ track days worth of use on 1 set. Looks like they are $260-$275 for a set.
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pr...productID=2470

qwertymess

For those running on the XP20 pads i would highly recommend taking it a step up and run the XP24 pads up front.

I have run carbotechs on many platforms and now in a C5 Z06 running on Hoosier R6 Tires.

The XP 20 is a great pad. Very early bite and TQ but also doesnt last very long. Were as the XP24 will easily outlast an XP20 three fold and offers a later more consistent bite and tq.

Think of the XP20 pad as the Hoosier A6 tire. It offers super performance but doesnt last
the XP24 is like the Hoosier R6. It gives you 90% of the grip from an A6 but lasts three times as long.

I run XP24's up front with the AP Endurance kit and XP12's in the rear with the stock Z06 Calipers

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Yes, the XP20 has more initial bite than the XP24. The 24 is designed to last longer but, takes proper heat for optimum performance.

Soloontario

Interesting point. I have always run crappy rear pads in the hope to prevent rear ABS triggering but that doesn't help if all it does is not slow the car and trigger front ABS. No, I have not been particularly happy with the rear end of the car during heavy braking.

Obviously the experience will depend of the tires used, i.e. if you have Hoosier R6s up front, the front brakes can handle a lot more force and wgt transfer. Yes the stock car may use the same compound front to rear but GM cars are designed generally to lock the rear tires first and the better the wgt transfer to the front, the more front brake you can use.

Another issue that you need to consider is the optimum temp for the pads you are using. Obviously the rears don't get anywhere near as hot as the fronts so shouldn't they be at a lower temp range?

Greg Campbell

These ("which X is better for my car?") threads are usually popcorn worthy

Like motor oil and women, brake pads choice ultimately comes down to personal preference. Take a look at the avatars of the previous posters and notice the variety of cars (from full raced prepped, to HPDE, etc.). Every different car and different purpose is going to have different requirements. Layer in variety in personal preferences and you can see why there are dozens of high performance brake pad companies out their, each with their die hard fans.

When you are deciding what pad compound (or more importantly pad type; more on that later) I don't think people spend enough time thinking about what they 'need' from the pad, vs. trying to determine what pad is 'best'. Different pads suit different drivers and cars better, so it's not a case of "Raybestos is better than Cobalt" but it should be "I need X from my brakes, what pads are good at that?"

Start with Essex's blog about the various types of brake compounds and their typical usages http://www.essexparts.com/learning-c...ose-brake-pads. Take this blog with a grain of salt, as Essex sells CL brakes (not that I think the blog is inherently biased, just saying consider the source). From this you need to determine three things: 1) what 'pedal feel' do I LIKE 2) what heat range do I NEED and 3) What's my PURPOSE.

For me, I like a consistent pedal feel, which means minimal change in bite with temperature. Because of this preference, I hated the PFC01s as I would hit the pedal and not get as much retardation as I was expecting. I would instinctively increase pressure but after a couple rotations the pads would be hotter and brake torque would ramp up too fast. Tires would then lock and then I spent the rest of the braking zone varying pressure trying to catch up. I find Hawk pads are much better in this regard; minimal change in torque with temperature (which also means they work well from cold).

For heat range however, Hawks are starting to let me down. Their temperature range isn't the greatest and while DTC-60 have good feel, when they get hot they wear like an eraser. For my intended purpose (Time Attack) their quick warm up and consistent feel are worth the trade off. I have minimal laps to get it right and little little warm up before needing to be 'on it'.

If I wanted to move up in temperature capacity, because I know what I want from a pad (consistent feel and little torque rise with temperature) I have a good idea where to start; Cobalts or CL.

Now... let the pigeons loose.