Zenak

track daze doesnt do a daily AM tech inspection which includes torquing every car coming down the line to get their cleared sticker?

waddisme

They did an initial tech, but I don't remember them torquing my wheels, but they may have. They did find that my battery was loose. The loose lugs probably didn't occur until the plasti-dip melted. Tech sticker was good for both days fwiw.

Independent1

Hey Keith,

I was there as well in my Miata running in the blue group. They just tech you before you are allowed to go out the first day. After that you are on your own. No one checked the torque on my lug nuts but they did grab all 4 wheels and try to move them around.

I know to check the torque on my lug nuts and did that a couple of times while there. Was a good event!

Bill Dearborn

I have been to a lot of schools over the last 20 years and have never been to one that required a bolt torque check on the second day. For the last 15 or so none of them have required one on the first day since so there are so many different settings. Forget to change the torque wrench from a Corvette setting of 100 ft/lbs to 50 ft/lbs for whatever car comes next and you could break somebody's lug nuts. Best to have them say they checked them on the tech sheet. It does look like more groups will be requiring a Certified Mechanic to sign off on the Tech Inspection Form. Too many blown radiator hoses, oil lines, etc. I had noticed an increase in these types of incidents over the last few years and the BMW Club has said they will be moving that way soon. Even told instructors (who have always filled out their tech forms themselves) they would pull 5 instructor cars at random at the next HPDE to do a thorough tech inspection. Not just a tech line walk around but a take your wheels off and lets see what you have inspection.

They will be doing two types of brake fluid testing. If the first one passes you don't need the second but the second will measure the water content in the fluid. If it doesn't pass you don't go on track until it does.

Bill

drivinhard

I have had it happen to students. I have seen a miata wheel actually come off at Summit Point right in front of me, going through the chute

Heck I was sitting on grid at VIR last Oct ready to try an pounce on Brian Bower's TTA record and realized I never torqued the wheels with the torque wrench (I think there was a distracting potty break for the 3 yr old or some kid crisis while swapping wheels). Had to get Brian to torque my wheels in the paddock.

During a sticker tire TT run at Road Atlanta last Dec I felt a vibration on the first hot lap, that seemed a little worse on the 2nd lap (the "go" lap). I remember going through T9 @ 150 thinking "dang, I must have bent a wheel". I tore off through T12, finished the lap and on the cool down lap it was getting worse. By the time I got to the paddock (2.5 miles later), it was terrible. I got out and the RF wheel was very loose, it would not have gone much farther.

I torque down again, and later in the day it came loose again. Turns out I had a bad hub and swapped it out that saturday night headed and all was well on sunday.

She still hung on to a 1:31.5 with the loose wheel

CanadianVetster

Always good to re check lug nuts and fluid levels, tire condition etc. before all seasons. It only takes a few quick checks to avoid dramatic moment.

Bedouin

I always mark the bolts on my cars & bikes with a sharpie pen after I torque them. Just a small line from frame across the bolt side, & you'll see OEM paint on certain fasteners as well.

After torqueing the lug nuts on my '12 GS, I mark each lug with @ 3/8" line; from center to inward on the lug nut face, all 5 marks pointing to center. I can take a quick glance & see that all 5 lugs line up & are torqued. Granted one of the lugs may back out a full rotation & go undetected, but the other 4 getting loose would also be obvious.

This is very useful on street/dirtbikes, so you can easily ensure axle & axle-pinch bolts are still torqued, especially after a crash, not to mention all the various fasteners, fork pinch bolts, handlebar mounts, subframe bolts etc.

The idea is a quick walk around will give you peace of mind that the main fasteners are tight.

RaleighSS

Not that i have been around long ... only 8 years in this but I have never seen a properly torqued wheel nuts or bolts come loose. What i call proper is initial torque cold ... one heat cycle (could be just a street drive) then a re-torque when cold ...This students car was torqued to spec but had that rubber / plastic coating in the seat of the bolt so when it liquified or got soft under heat it was no longer torqued ....

stevensa

I have a few friends who are really into tracking BMW's. They all switch to studs as it is common to have issues with the OEM bolts not holding torque when tracking the car heavily (even with an OEM setup I should have specified). I have never heard of any street only DD having this issue though.

travisnd

FYI this can also happen with powdercoated brake calipers. I had a set of OEM calipers done in black for my old car. The powdercoater covered everything, including the surfaces that are normally machined on the OEM calipers. I noticed it, but didn't think much of it as I was a noob at the time. After a few sessions I noticed VIR paddock gravel actually sticking to the calipers. Upon closer inspection the coating wasn't up to the temperatures of track events and was getting soft. The bolts holding everything together were all loose, just like the OP's story.

Plasti-dip is all the rage on many forums right now since it's a cheap and easy way to change something and then undo it later. All of us instructors should keep an eye out for it and ask students if their wheels have it on them. FYI it doesn't just come in flat black... comes in colors too. I have a Nissan Titan as a tow vehicle and over on the forum for those trucks the guys have an odd fetish with the stuff and bedliner. They think it's cool to cover half the truck in this crap.

Han Solo

Plasitdip aside, all wheels should be re-torqued after a heat cycle since initial install. Once is usually sufficient for car wheels but I've seen new steel trailer wheels require many retorques to seat.

Never paid much attention to them being dead cold but I usually retighten after a couple of miles of moderate driving and they always take some torque on a few nuts.

travisnd

Yep... most steel trailer wheels are painted and the paint moves/wears off.

Just to clarify so nobody misreads the above post, DO NOT torque your lugs when you come off track and everything is warm. You can over-torque causing the threads to gall and/or snap a stud.

froggy47

Hmm.

I thought that was because it's so flippin hard to hold the wheel up & try to get a bolt started instead of hanging the wheel like we do.

TKOGTO

Excellent idea. Will add it to the pre-session checklist.

Thanks

Zenak

the two PCA clubs i run with do torque checks every AM

z06801

And I got crap for wanting to wear my race suit while i instucted. "what do you plan on burning today" You wear it when your racing and you have full protection, cage,hans, fire supressant but you hop into some nitwits car with no lug nuts ect. with a T shirt on? I feel way safer racing My friends e90 M3 lug nuts just all broke off coming into T5 hairpin probably ran them to long and over torqued them.

rayk

That's a good point. I'm on the fence about buying a suit for the additional protection. I upgraded to a 2010 spec helmet this year along with driving shoes and gloves. I was considering getting a suit for the additional protection in case something happens. I see all these people go out in shorts, t-shirt and old helmets with marginal prepared cars that I don't see them checking brakes, tires, or torqueing the lug nuts. Then they are running off the track because they can't slow down or are spinning out.

I don't have a cage or race seat, harness. It seems to me that buying a suit because I want the protection would be a good thing and it's not to look cool.

What do you guys think?

froggy47

I think in stock cars (and maybe I'm all wet) that fire risk is very low compared to race cars either purpose built or heavily modded stock.

So my priority is a neck device, seat & 6 point.

If you ride in a lot of student cars, though, I can see the suit, you just don't know what's right or wrong on the car.

Statistically, let's say there will be 100 "major" wrecks across the tracks of the country this month.

Of the 100 how many will result in fire? One or two? Five?

Better to have a driver suit or neck protection?

The one that stays ON the driver (or passenger) seems a big plus for instructors.

TKOGTO

Honestly, you should not give a flying rats *** what other people think about your protection decisions. I've got kids and I'd wear an damn spacesuit if I thought I needed to. Maybe it's me but I don't care what most people think because most people don't think. Now if this was just your pals talking smack then no problem.

froggy47

Personally, I would not want anyone touching my lug nuts after I have carefully set them to my preferred torque. Seriously, isn't that a bit much?

They can tug my wheels, measure pads, rotors, tires, etc. Look at date on belts, ck fire ext. but no wrenches on the car if you don't mind.

They can ask, do you want me to retorque your lug nuts? Answer, no! Some other guy wants his done, that's his choice.