gstama

Now that i think about it why does nobody make a stock calliper fit on a 13.5"
rotor, it can be Alcon, Brembo, Willwood, that stop tech rotor looks hot, but what ever rotor we choose.

I know that Dilusi has a 14" rotor but most use after market rims that race at the track, so a 17" rim will not work with those rotors.

If i was in this business i would make this in a second, why try to make high end stock size rotors,when youcan use the ones out there already.

I just dont get it!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Brian Madderom

VBP is coming out with a 14" rotor kit for use with the stock calipers sometime this summer. You will probably have to use 18" rims such as the Z-06 rims. Which rotors are you looking for? Are you looking for pretty rotors or ones that actually work in racing?

Mike Schriber

Laping days or time trials? Stock rotors are the items of choice. Inexpensive, and they last a fair amount of time.

Mike :flag

gstama

I am looking for rotors that work at the track, the stock ones just do not last.

On my c4 i had Alcon Pro+ and those rotors lasted a long time.

:chevy :chevy

Mike Schriber

What kind of track use are you talking about? What kinds of pads are you using also?

I've run over twelve track days (2-4 hours per day) on my original set of stock rotors (with 10,000 street miles as well) and they're still going strong. I've run through a set of stock pads and half a set of EBC Green Stuff pads.

Unless you are racing or using a super agressive pad without additional airflow for cooling, you stock rotors should last quite a while.

How are they failing?

Mike :flag



[Modified by Mike Schriber, 1:33 AM 4/28/2002]

z060ntrack

No offense Mike, but your NOT using your brakes to thier fullest. I just came back from Viper Days at Mid Ohio and cracked 2 rotors that were used last year. Luckily Warren Dillard was there (runs SCCA T1) and had extra's. HE is stuck with using the stock rotors because of rules and he cracks them all the time.

I wasn't using an aggressive pad either, I was using Hawk HP Plus.I was about to post an inquiry about a good two piece replacement but I see there is alot of disscussion about rotors already.

gpflepsen

Mike, I have to think you aren't using your brakes very hard. I went through a set of EBC Reds in 100 minutes. I'm talking down to the backing plate. My stock rotors have seen that the end is near. I'm looking at Dilusi's Stage III to try to get some sort of life out of components.

I am happy with the stock rotors, but it's easy to abuse them.

davidfarmer

The best deal is the stock brakes. The rotors are cheap, and easy to change.

Dave

Mike Schriber

Well guys, I don't know what to tell you, but I use the brakes to the fullest extent that each track requires. The only way I can think to "not use my brakes very hard" would be to go slow, and that I don't do.

Funny enough, many new drivers go through brakes faster than more experienced drivers because they over-brake into the corners and scrub off too much speed. I believe that both you guys have more experience than that. Another thing, which racing tires, I don't have to slow down as much for the turns as someone on stock or street rubber.

I've never been to Mid Ohio so I don't know how it is on brakes. The tracks we run out west vary, as do tracks everywhere. My last event was at Buttonwillow. The configuration we ran required braking from 120+ to around 20 for one particular turn and I didn't baby the brakes at all.

The Hawk pads aren't too aggressive overall, but they are when you compare them to stock pads. The EBC Red Stuff pads are notorious for burning up fast. The Green Stuff is a street pad and lasts a lot longer.

I really think the stock system is very well implemented. The calipers could be better, but they work pretty well, other than pad taper. The stock rotors are fine for the street and track. They work well and are dirt cheap to replace. With cooling upgrades, you can run aggressive pads on the stock hardware without fading or melting your components.

It just goes to show, you mileage my vary!

Mike :flag

wtknght1

If you're really using your brakes hard, the rotors won't last more than 2 weekends. I race mine in SCCA T1 and I get 2 race weekends out of mine before they are toast. They crack out to the edge.

Dave's right about the brakes, just keep changing rotors and pads unless you are going full blown racing...then try PFCs or Carbotechs.

z060ntrack

Dave your probably right . At $65 each from Fictner I quess using them and tossing them is the best method. I talked to VB about there treated and slotted one piece and supposedly J Hienriency is getting 4 times the life with thier rotors. but there $575 for the four.Thanks

z060ntrack

Mike I got 9 track days out of the stock rotors so I was under the same assumption you were that they would last. So beware the cracks are coming.

Mike Schriber

Oh, my rotors have about had it. There are light radial cracks already and I don't expect them to last much longer. I always keep a set of extra rotors (and pads, etc.) with my track gear (along with a full set of tools).

It's important to distinguish between time trials or lapping days and real racing. I would expect SCCA T1 or World Challenge racers would go through components a heck of a lot faster than I will.

Mike :flag

Brian Madderom

Just for comparison, say your a little harder on your brakes than Heinricy and your only getting three times the life of a rotor. $65 x 3 = $195 / $195 x 4 = $780. To me the VB rotors are still a better deal in the long run. :rolleyes:


[Modified by Brian Madderom, 8:58 AM 4/30/2002]

Rick93Z07

I've heard Mike's argument before. This is my opinion: 1) You do not need to be racing in a particular "series" with an impressive or otherwise recognizable name to fail parts quickly. 2) Drivers that are not in a particular "series" are not necessarily driving wrong or "at fault" if brake parts fail in a similar manner or interval. I will never see how racing in a "real" series validates brake part wearout. Parts failure is proportional to duty. I think rotor cracks and pad wearout are independent of the event organizer or sponsor. Many individuals run at 100% or even exceed that threshold and wreck during Practice, Test & Tune, Open Track Days, Fun Days, DE Events or other so-called non competitive venues. Under these conditions, the car may recieve maximum abuse much like qualifying heats, which in certain instances exceeds race duty. During wheel to wheel racing, a race car surely absorbs more abuse to it's "body panels".


[Modified by Rick93Z07, 9:14 AM 4/30/2002]

Brian Madderom

Rick93Z07 has obviously never driven a wheel to wheel racecar to know which parts wear out quicker. The brake wear intervals are determined by brake components and mostly by driving style. :nono:


[Modified by Brian Madderom, 9:19 AM 4/30/2002]

Mike Schriber

I disagree. In just about every situation I can think of, actual racing and all that it involves will result in more wear on the car and it's systems than time trials or open track days. The cars are typicaly run harder and for longer periods. When you factor in qualifying and practice, a race series car spends considerably more time on the track than a time trial or open track day car. For example, I have my car on the track for two to four hours in a weekend, once every month to two months. That's not very much compared to someone who races in a series.

Brake life is a function of several important factors including the type of components, the driver's style, the type of track, the type of event, the weight of the car, the performance of the car, and the type of tires.

Here in this thread you have several people with similar cars, on different tracks, all with different experiences concerning their braking system. When you add in differences in pad composition and maintenance, it's plan that no clear pattern exists.

This issue has come up here many times before. Certain types of drivers believe things are a certain way, regardless of the situation. We've all seen many people here (not in this thread) compain that the stock brakes just don't cut it... on the street. Most of these people just want something to complain about, or want a big brake kit to impress people. The truth is, bagging on the stock braking system can be an easy way out for other problems. It's an easy excuse and many people take it.

As I said before, your mileage my vary.

Mike :flag

Rick93Z07

Brian,

If "brake wear intervals" are strictly determined by "components and driving style", my wife surely has the answer. I better go downstairs and see if Ganassi and Rousch has anyone snooping around her minivan to determine why her brakes last 2 whole seasons. Frankly, I never thought her driving style was that impressive either. The answer was right under my nose...thanks for pointing out my stupidity. I'm going to install my wife's indestructible 10 year old 10" rotors on my C4 and ask her for some driving tips.

Seriously, I think there's a little more to it. Brake cooling aids, the duration of the event (track miles) and many other factors influence brake longevity. The notion that "drivers who see lots of pad wear and rotor damage in non-sanctioned events are inferior" is totally inaccurate. This has been suggested by Mike (in the past) and I strongly disagree with this premise. Pad longevity and rotor life are a function of many parameters, but they are definitely proportional to lap times. Drivers who offset serious horsepower and tire compound deficits and other hardware shortcomings using aggressive driving & braking techniques see accelerated brake hardware failure. This does not make them "poor or otherwise..lesser drivers". Smooth driving always helps, but careful brake management techniques do NOT produce the quickest lap times. Brakes are carefully rationed, preserved and managed by a FAST racer..."if and only if" the brakes are a limiting factor. While brake management results in slower lap times, loss of braking due to overduty is even worse.


[Modified by Rick93Z07, 9:43 PM 4/30/2002]

Gary2KC5

IMHO we would not have so many brake pad, rotor, caliper discussions if GM ad simply had paid attention!!

They did so many things right when they examined all the cars they disassembled to create the C5. Why didn't they put Brembo calipers on the C5? Of course cost. For the small percentage of users that actually use the performance aspects, we're screwed.

If the C5 had Brembo calipers there would be no issues!

BTW: here is an explaination of using brakes hard. Road America T5 150 mph but in 50 yards you need to be at 45 mph. At T8 you have to haul down from 115 to 45 then at T12 you have to get from 140 to 50 then T14 from 115 to 50 then at T1 155 to 70.

I used up a set of PFC 01's in 200 miles. slotted rotors could be turned for street use but never again on track. I'm glad I vented air to the fronts, should have got the Z06 vents for the rear and avoided the big crack in the rear pass. side rotor.