BmoreRnsDeep

anyone know if you grease the t1 bushings with the fabric inserts? Im leaning towards no but haven't installed the bar yet.

froggy47

I do, usually anti sieze or poly bush lube. The thing i do that is most important is to add spacers as needed to "hand fit" the resistance so they can twist.

Chris Edwards

I had to do this with my Pfadt JOC swaybars as well... the rear did not need any washers but the front absolutely did need 1 washer under each bolt otherwise you could do pull-ups on it and the bar would not budge. I wonder how many people are driving around with swaybars that will essentially not move at all?

froggy47

Good to hear that you know about this.

If you don't use spacers to "tune" the bar, it still operates as similar to a stock bar setup, the rubber/poly whatever it is bushing twists on itself a little, it's just extra "bind" in the suspension that doesn't need to be there.

BmoreRnsDeep

So you're saying you need washers underneath the bushing mounts because the thicker bar binds? Wouldn't have thought of this, both front and back?

froggy47

You may or may not need them. Thicker bars should be installed with "thinner" bushings. Each size bar is supposed to be fitted with correct bushings.

If you install a thicker bar with the old bushings you have certainly bound up the bar. Not good.

If you can twist the bar by hand with moderate resistance (links detached) that's a proper fit. If it doesn't budge or is really tight it should be "hand fit" using appropriate washers.

If it has the wrong bushings, buy the correct ones.

Check my channel, I may have a video there on sway bars, I don't recall specifically.

el es tu

Either the factory or the suppliers screwed up but all sway bar bushings that Ive seen (even the lanky base ones) bind. When I removed the stock sways off my car at 50k, they had no powder coat left on the mount surfaces and a lot of rust. Shimming out the bushings is a must with any of the factory units. Im not so sure how well the aftermarket stuff turned out though...

Keep in mind, even with shims youre still going to lose some powder coat over time and get binding - especially as the grease works its way out.

froggy47

Which is why they need lube and hand fit at least annual.

BmoreRnsDeep

Just had the t1 bars installed and I get a lot of noise going over gradual dips in the road and a little over sharper bumps. I am wondering if the bar is stuck in the bushings and not letting the bar articulate with the suspension. What size washers do you use to space out the bushing brackets? does my theory make sense about the noise. I know these endlinks make noise but this seems excessive. If they are two short or two long will this cause this problem? I am planning on looking it all over this weekend and want to get the right washers.
Zach

froggy47

The bar could be hitting something if installed wrong. What links did you use? The bushings need to be "hand fit" there is no one correct size washer(s). Check my videos, I show how to do it.

el es tu

squeeking is from bound bushings - iirc I used approx 1 - 1.25" wide washers with .5" hole. I suggest you measure out how much space you have and the diameter of the bolts that hold the bars to the frame in order to get an exact metric measurement. Also keep in mind that youll find that many washers have varying thicknesses in each batch, so its good to buy more than you need, then use a vernier caliper to measure them out...

clacking is from worn endlinks - you can test this by feeling for play in the ball joints of the links

endlinks being too long or short will cause preload - if you have non adjustables, then theres nothing you can do, but with adjustable, you adjust with the car on all 4 wheels on a level surface. To maximize articulation, I use varying sizes of bolts and associated spacers. The most neutral setup you can get with the endlinks is having the bar and control arm endlink mounting tab perfectly parallel, but it can take some work to get it perfect...

good luck!

BmoreRnsDeep

Its weird because they are the new adjustable end links and there is a noticeable clack or clank. At the same time I had this done I had the van steel alignment kit installed too and im wondering if there something else going on. might be a bolt loose on one of the control arms.

BmoreRnsDeep

It was done at a reputable shop which I don't want to mention out of respect. So I doubt the front would be installed wrong, but if you get a chance do you mind snapping a pic of yours? I am getting concerned its not the bar. They are the t1 generic adjustable end links. I feel like if it was binding bad enough the endlinks could be making the noise.

Chris Edwards

Unless the bars were installed on ramps or a drive-on lift, the spherical bearings on the endlinks are more than likely binding.

Once installed, swaybars should be stiff, but not seized inside the bushing. A 200lb man could do pullups on my bars both front and rear, without the washers installed. I can only imagine the limitations in swaybar articulation that can be introduced by over-compressing the swaybar bushings.

I have an older set of Pfadt adjustable links that probably have 20,000 or more miles on them (I am the 3rd owner of these links lol) and they are totally silent.

I once had a clunking issue with the front end that I thought were the endlinks, but it turned out to be play on the upper control arm studs (Hardbar stud kit). I purchased LG "quiet" endlinks but have yet to install them because my current endlinks aren't making any noise. Maybe someday I'll need them...

BmoreRnsDeep

Froggy,
Just watched your swaybar video on youtube. Very cool lots of info in these. I need to look it over next weekend and see if I can see any clearance issues. I think between binding and interference that answers my problem.

froggy47

Heim joints that do not have "high misalignment" dimensions can bind and make noise. That's why I asked you what kind/brand you got.

Also heim joints (this is the bit on the end with the ball that moves) need to have spacers on each side of the ball or the nut/bolt will bind it up.

Post some pictures of the setup & maybe I can help.

Also if you watch my videos (I have front and rear) you will see a proper setup & I talk about why it needs to be what it is.

Watch both front and rear, then look at yours & take some pictures.

There is a lot to it.

franman69

Have to watch this thread. Deciding on end link direction for my dual use street/DE car.

el es tu

powergrid are the best in that they are heavy duty, sealed, and can be adjusted while on the car - 320 for a set though...
http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar_price.asp


a cheap but effective option would be piecing together a set with qa1 joints

froggy47

QA1 (if you know how to do it). About $120 both bars.

jimtway

Do not add grease or any lube to any lined sphericals or rod ends. The liners have a PTFE or similar material in them which is the lubrication. If you add grease or lube, not only can you increase the friction, but you can reduce their life due to grit and dirt working their way into the rodend via the grease.

Metal on metal rodends do however need a grease.

Checkout RBC Bearings tech manual. Lots a good info on sphericals and bearings.