froggy47

Update again, I never got around to removing the Rescue Tape and I'll be a sob if the clunk noise went away after a few days. So it stays on.

froggy47

Still quiet, did a couple of events. Quiet end links are soooo nice.

I think what bothered me the most, having ridden in & owned some older Vettes, is that the C5Z is so solid & quiet (not engine & exhaust & tranny - but the body) that I was pizzed that when I put the adj links on that I got the clunking.

So I was determined to remove it.

So far success.

froggy47

Here is why the upgrade links click.




On the left is a stock C5Z 2004 link which I am holding in it's max angular deflection (because the rubber boot moves it back to 90 degrees (approx) if I don't).

Right is a typical adjustable link upgrade. It's angle position is approximately the max angular deflection (before it hits metal to metal at it's max angle).

Notice the nice cushy rubber bumper (grease boot) on the oem link.

Notice nothing to prevent metal to metal contact at max deflection on the adjustable link.

There you have it.

I don't know why the adjustables could not be made with a max angle the same as oem, but the two I have used were both less by about 10 to 15 degrees of movement.

As for the rubber "bumper" look back a few posts and see my "wrap".

Mine are still quiet a month out.

andrewdonald1

I think you are on to something. I just posted the same thoughts on my update to the bushing project.

So can you play around with the bolt sleeves to equalize the angles between the ends of the heim joints and the CA & sway bar mounts?

froggy47

The main function of the bolt sleeves (as you know) is to get clearance for the bolt to swivel around and clear the race at a decent amount so it's not bound up & eliminating the movement function.

Once the sufficient clearance is found there is no reason IMO that you can't go a little longer to achieve a more ideal angle of the link related to the bar and CA.

It may be that you do not "equal" them so much as make them ideal for the top and bottom, so that could be with different length sleeves in all the positions.

In my case using the sleeves from the T1 GM links and the Mid West links I did not adjust them & it's all good so far.

I think different bar ends & shapes may benefit from what you suggest.

Solofast

Yes, that's exactly what I did by cutting the sleeves to get a lower angle in the joints. It depends on the bar you are using and the length of the joints, but you can indeed make sure that the rod ends aren't running out of angular deflection if you take a few minutes to do it. In my case I reduced the length of the spacer between the control arm and the rod end, and that angled the rod end toward the sway bar and the amount of angle in the swivel in the rod end on the bar was reduced. Dr. Die Grinder is your friend....

I'm not sure that it's entirely an issue with the angle. When I put in the T1 end links, in the begining, they weren't noisy, but as they got older the got louder. When I took them apart you could feel some slop in the joint and it would click if you moved it from side to side. Maybe it was wear, or maybe the joints got deformed from running out of clearance, but after a while they clunked pretty bad. I am sure that if you run out of angular clearance it will be bad, so you do want to make shure you have the rod ends working within their proper range.

andrewdonald1

Thanks for the time for writing this up. Now that I am corner balanced I assume that as long as I leave the center-to-center length the same on the end links (and of course use them at the same side), this shouldn't affect my corner balance correct?

Solofast

Correct, but that's really hard to measure. Easier put the car into the air on jack stands, take the wheels off and then put a jack under one A arm and tweak it until there is no load on the end links and then replace them. You just have to figure which one needs a bit of jack force to remove the load and that worked for me. I looked at trying to measure the center to center length and I would have had a hard time trying to get it right. I looked at putting long bolts thru both sets of links and that didn't work. Trying to measure them with a caliper is worthless to...

Or you could put the car on ramps and make sure the ramps were level and that might let you get in there and do it. While I was dinking with the end links and stuff I just figured it was all a lot easier to get to with the wheels off the car. Just make sure the jack doesn't move or get bumped while you have it apart and you will be fine.

The usual caveats apply, your mileage may vary....

Solofast

Just a thought on how you could do that....

What you could do is put two long bolts thru the end links and put the bolt heads into a vise. Then tweak them until the end links slide off easily, that way you know the bolts are parallel, and then tighten the vise. You could then adjust the new link to be the same length and if it slides down the same bolts easily you are the same length as the one you took off...

Rinse, repeat for the other side....

froggy47

I agree, worn spherical joints can/will make noise & IMO some of the brands wear way too fast, but if you have noise with new links it's that you are at the max angle & hitting metal to metal.

Solofast

Probalby true... When new my links were pretty quiet, later really loud..

froggy47

I am not sure I understand the adjustment procedure you guys are talking about. Off the car, jacking under a CA etc.

Her is what I came up with FWIW.

1) Disconnect bars (one or both sides) lower end only (control arm)

2) set ride height & corner weights (if you are doing that).

3) Drive up on ramps

4) Connect lower end of link (one side), adjust length of link as needed to clear sub frame steering linkage, etc.

5) connect the other side (link) and adjust length to whatever is right so that the bolt slips in without having to force anything.

You now have a neutral bar, no preload, and suspension is loaded same as if the car were on the ground.

Of course if you have a pit or an alignment rack you don't need the ramps.

The links don't need to be EXACTLY the same length, most times if you try to make them exact, you will have to force the last side and that will be preloading the bar.



The rear can usually be done without the ramps.

Once I did both ends of the link (upper and lower)with the wheels on ramps & laying under the car but the upper is hard to reach & torque etc.

So when I (next time) put on links I will jack the car, pull the wheels, and do just the upper end of the link with everything easy to access. Then the lower as described above.

Solofast

Andrew has the car cornerweighted already. Unless he has a perfectly level surface to adjust the sway bar links on, he is going to end up with a preload in the bar (which he doesn't want). If he sets each end link to the same length as it is now, he doesn't have to find a flat surface to do this on, all he has to do is put it back together with the new end links on each side with the same length as the link that came off of that side.

So if he makes a fixture that lets him set up each end link to the same length as the one on that side previously, he doesn't have to do all of that. Putting a couple of long bolts in a vise and making sure they are parallel and then using that as a fixture to make sure the links are the same as the one that came off of that side he is good to go.

froggy47

That should work, but, if you end up with a significant misalignment of the FINAL bolt, then I think something went off somewhere & if you have to force it in very much, I think there is preload happening somehow.

Post up how it goes.

andrewdonald1

how did it go?

I succeeded in the back.
I transposed the spacer positions (on both upper and lower bolts) and it definitely quietened it down, but not 100%.

I failed in the front.
I transposed them on the bottom bolts but didn't do anything on the top bolts. It appeared to be a better angle, but when I took it for a spin, it was way worse.
I got pissed and threw the OEM links (04 C5Z) on there (just the front) for the work week commute (they slipped right in the holes - I was working under the front with the weight on the front wheels which were on ramps). I made a rough measurement and the Adjustable Front end links are approx 90 mm c-to-c, the OEM are roughly 82 mm c-to-c.
I took it for a zip, and it all appears to be handling the same (of course no clunking with the OEM links).
I am pissed about these things.
I want zero preload, I have clunking!
I want my perfect corner balance and my 1 week old alignment back - ok I am being **** here, but I am sure with the front OEM links its not perfect (I couldn't tell any difference on the test drive).

Do they may adjustable end links with ball joints like the OEM's?

BTW gents thanks for asking. Andy

froggy47

I did mine over several times, until I got them where they are now.

If the oem's slipped in with no bind, then you may not need the adj on the front. It's only when you have to pry the bar to get the last bolt in, that the adjustable makes a difference. Some cars come out ok.

The stock links wear out pretty fast also, When I took mine off & worked them by hand they were rough & looser than the new Mid West ones I installed. Keep at it.

drivinhard

yes

andrewdonald1

Ok - could you help a brother out and send me in the right direction big fella?

gkmccready

http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar.asp

froggy47

Is $159.99 the price for EACH link or for a PAIR?

I don't see pair anywhere.