Dirty bergmeister
10-11-2009, 10:01 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
That was way rough. Jan certainly gave him a pretty good bump coming out of the last turn, but that blocking move and then into the wall is just uncalled for. I certainly give kudos for calling JM for the pit exit pass, I can't imagine what would have happened is someone had actually been coming out of the pits. Oh, it'd looked like what Jorg actually did to Jan. Jan got called out, so should have Jorg. I really hope IMSA and the ACO review the end of the race.
10-11-2009, 10:28 PM
#22
Advanced
That was way rough. Jan certainly gave him a pretty good bump coming out of the last turn, but that blocking move and then into the wall is just uncalled for. I certainly give kudos for calling JM for the pit exit pass, I can't imagine what would have happened is someone had actually been coming out of the pits. Oh, it'd looked like what Jorg actually did to Jan. Jan got called out, so should have Jorg. I really hope IMSA and the ACO review the end of the race.
10-11-2009, 10:48 PM
#23
Race Director
No matter what had happened previously, running somebody across the track, into the wall and eventually spinning them across your nose isn't called for. More so than that, it is a low class, amateur, dirty, and most of all dangerous move no matter what type of racing it is from karts to F-1.
Last edited by RedLS1GTO; 10-11-2009 at 10:50 PM.
10-11-2009, 10:55 PM
#24
Although the C6R did instigate contact in T11, in my mind the incident will come down to steering wheel data in both cars. If the Porsche held its line and the vette turned down into him to try to close off the pass, the Corvette was at fault. If the Porsche turned into the Corvette the start the slide, the Porsche is at fault.
Last edited by jhester; 10-11-2009 at 10:57 PM.
10-11-2009, 11:25 PM
#25
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10-11-2009, 11:25 PM
#26
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Hi Guys,
First let me say that Jan is the only driver on the Chevy team that came to congratulate us last race for out qualifying the Factory team. He is a class act.
He is also one tough driver .
First incident in pit out lane: the rule is there because there are always cars coming out of the pits and they have to travel around past turn 2 to enter the track. So driving 4 wheels into that lane is just asking for trouble. If there was a car coming out of the pits then, it would have been really bad for them.
Let me also say that in practice (yes practice) there was only one car that constantly hit us (yes hit us) or shoved our corvette into the dirt and they were the Corvette factory cars. Even when we were waiving them by, they would brush us or squeeze us. even at Atlanta, on the long straight as we were passing them they squeezed our driver (on video) against the grass for some reason.
I can only assume that the drivers were "Instructed" to intimidate us so we might be off our game and not repeat the Atlanta qualifying scenario.
No other cars on the track do that. Not to us and not to the others. Just the factory Corvette team. (must be the foreigners)
At any rate, at Laguna, which is Government owned, they did not want to move the inside pit wall toward the paddock to widen the exit of the pits to make room for the flagger's stand at start finish. So they pushed the pit wall toward the track side. so the pit wall curves toward the track side. If you look at the video, you will see that if you run within inches of the pit wall and stay totally straight on your steering, you WILL hit the part of the wall that is pushed toward the track side.
This is a common crash at Laguna. It would not require the 45 car to do anything for this crash to happen.
If you look at the video, you will see that Jan sees the wall coming and he turns to the right to avoid the wall. Bergmeister just provided the pivot that turned the Corvette to the right.
The Porsche then touches his brakes to avoid the Corvette as it crosses in front of the 45 car. The porsche just got out of the way and let the Corvette continue across the track and unfortunately into the wall. Thankfully Jan was ok because the hit was not a dead straight hit but rather a glancing blow to the wall.
Now to turn 11, the last turn. Jan is a hard racer. He saw that he was not going to be able to pass him cleanly so he released his brakes and actually accelerated into the Porsche with the intention of spinning him.
The contact only wiggled the Porsche enough to cause a drag race against the pit wall. "A wall that has a curve in it that protrudes toward the track side.
Once they were an inch away from the wall and an inch away from each other, there was no other outcome that could be had without the Corvette or Porsche giving up and lifting. And this was a high contact sport for some laps.
And to ask the porsche to lift and hand over the just after the Porsche got tagged intentionally and cleaqrly smashed in the rear by Jan, would be asking a racer too much.
So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.
So there you have it. You reap what you sow and if you rough drive too much, this kind of thing WILl happen more often.
Oh, and during the race, we lost a few laps for a couple of reasons, and bad calls on our part but while we were on track, our #28 car was hit in the door by the #3 car really hard in turn 9, while trying to let them by. and again in turn 2, they drove across my right front splitter and bumper. Weird!
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
First let me say that Jan is the only driver on the Chevy team that came to congratulate us last race for out qualifying the Factory team. He is a class act.
He is also one tough driver .
First incident in pit out lane: the rule is there because there are always cars coming out of the pits and they have to travel around past turn 2 to enter the track. So driving 4 wheels into that lane is just asking for trouble. If there was a car coming out of the pits then, it would have been really bad for them.
Let me also say that in practice (yes practice) there was only one car that constantly hit us (yes hit us) or shoved our corvette into the dirt and they were the Corvette factory cars. Even when we were waiving them by, they would brush us or squeeze us. even at Atlanta, on the long straight as we were passing them they squeezed our driver (on video) against the grass for some reason.
I can only assume that the drivers were "Instructed" to intimidate us so we might be off our game and not repeat the Atlanta qualifying scenario.
No other cars on the track do that. Not to us and not to the others. Just the factory Corvette team. (must be the foreigners)
At any rate, at Laguna, which is Government owned, they did not want to move the inside pit wall toward the paddock to widen the exit of the pits to make room for the flagger's stand at start finish. So they pushed the pit wall toward the track side. so the pit wall curves toward the track side. If you look at the video, you will see that if you run within inches of the pit wall and stay totally straight on your steering, you WILL hit the part of the wall that is pushed toward the track side.
This is a common crash at Laguna. It would not require the 45 car to do anything for this crash to happen.
If you look at the video, you will see that Jan sees the wall coming and he turns to the right to avoid the wall. Bergmeister just provided the pivot that turned the Corvette to the right.
The Porsche then touches his brakes to avoid the Corvette as it crosses in front of the 45 car. The porsche just got out of the way and let the Corvette continue across the track and unfortunately into the wall. Thankfully Jan was ok because the hit was not a dead straight hit but rather a glancing blow to the wall.
Now to turn 11, the last turn. Jan is a hard racer. He saw that he was not going to be able to pass him cleanly so he released his brakes and actually accelerated into the Porsche with the intention of spinning him.
The contact only wiggled the Porsche enough to cause a drag race against the pit wall. "A wall that has a curve in it that protrudes toward the track side.
Once they were an inch away from the wall and an inch away from each other, there was no other outcome that could be had without the Corvette or Porsche giving up and lifting. And this was a high contact sport for some laps.
And to ask the porsche to lift and hand over the just after the Porsche got tagged intentionally and cleaqrly smashed in the rear by Jan, would be asking a racer too much.
So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.
So there you have it. You reap what you sow and if you rough drive too much, this kind of thing WILl happen more often.
Oh, and during the race, we lost a few laps for a couple of reasons, and bad calls on our part but while we were on track, our #28 car was hit in the door by the #3 car really hard in turn 9, while trying to let them by. and again in turn 2, they drove across my right front splitter and bumper. Weird!
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
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Last edited by LG Motorsports; 10-11-2009 at 11:32 PM.
10-11-2009, 11:56 PM
#27
Race Director
Dammit LG... I don't want to have to root AGAINST Corvettes for the first time in my life but you are making it tough with your dirty little tricks like facts, logic, and experience.
10-12-2009, 12:49 AM
#28
Shame. I've been pulling for the Lizards against the f-cars for a couple of seasons now. No more.
After what happened at Sebring in 2007 I would have thought Joerg would have kept it a little cleaner. I didn't think what Jaime Melo did then was clean racing but it looks like nothing compared to what Joerg did to Jan.
The stewards should have penalized it. Even if they don't, Joerg should man-up and apologize for a bonehead move.
After what happened at Sebring in 2007 I would have thought Joerg would have kept it a little cleaner. I didn't think what Jaime Melo did then was clean racing but it looks like nothing compared to what Joerg did to Jan.
The stewards should have penalized it. Even if they don't, Joerg should man-up and apologize for a bonehead move.
Last edited by linutux; 10-12-2009 at 12:57 AM.
10-12-2009, 01:22 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
If you look at the video, you will see that Jan sees the wall coming and he turns to the right to avoid the wall. Bergmeister just provided the pivot that turned the Corvette to the right.
The Porsche then touches his brakes to avoid the Corvette as it crosses in front of the 45 car. The porsche just got out of the way and let the Corvette continue across the track and unfortunately into the wall. Thankfully Jan was ok because the hit was not a dead straight hit but rather a glancing blow to the wall.
Oh, and during the race, we lost a few laps for a couple of reasons, and bad calls on our part but while we were on track, our #28 car was hit in the door by the #3 car really hard in turn 9, while trying to let them by. and again in turn 2, they drove across my right front splitter and bumper. Weird!
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
The Porsche then touches his brakes to avoid the Corvette as it crosses in front of the 45 car. The porsche just got out of the way and let the Corvette continue across the track and unfortunately into the wall. Thankfully Jan was ok because the hit was not a dead straight hit but rather a glancing blow to the wall.
Oh, and during the race, we lost a few laps for a couple of reasons, and bad calls on our part but while we were on track, our #28 car was hit in the door by the #3 car really hard in turn 9, while trying to let them by. and again in turn 2, they drove across my right front splitter and bumper. Weird!
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
Lou, I followed the race on RLM and LT&S and I was going to ask what caused all the pit stops? you guys pitted 2X times more than the front runners.
And what was with the #21, 2 stops in 4 Hrs.? Were they using last years MMP fuel cell?
10-12-2009, 01:40 AM
#30
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I will give a full race report later but the short story is that Drissi spun with the tires down to the cords trying to do yellow fuel only stops in his stint.
That caused a green flag stop which lost us another lap (two so far).
Then with Tom Sutherland in the car, the water bottle hose broke so he was really having a hard time continuing. So we had another green flag stop for another lap plus loss, and that cooked our goose.
The 21 car? I don't know. I know that they got some kind of break in their fuel tank size.
More later,
Thanks
Lou G
That caused a green flag stop which lost us another lap (two so far).
Then with Tom Sutherland in the car, the water bottle hose broke so he was really having a hard time continuing. So we had another green flag stop for another lap plus loss, and that cooked our goose.
The 21 car? I don't know. I know that they got some kind of break in their fuel tank size.
More later,
Thanks
Lou G
10-12-2009, 02:05 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
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10-12-2009, 02:06 AM
#32
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10-12-2009, 02:12 AM
#33
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At any rate, at Laguna, which is Government owned,
...
So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.
So there you have it. You reap what you sow and if you rough drive too much, this kind of thing WILl happen more often
...
So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.
So there you have it. You reap what you sow and if you rough drive too much, this kind of thing WILl happen more often
Not sure why you mentioned Laguna being government owned (it's part of the county park). That doesn't have anything to do with the decisions they make esp. with regard to moving the pit wall. The track is run independently.
10-12-2009, 03:07 AM
#34
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10-12-2009, 05:15 AM
#35
Team Owner
You can't hit someone on the rear fender and then push them in the door if your side by side. Only if your behind in second place after getting passed. He did it on purpose. The comment was "I wasn't going to lose like that. I'm still shaking after that" by Bergmeister. He was mad, not a collected professional driver that had just lost. The better driver and car goes to the C6R. Just look at the pass outside a few laps before and the distance after the entrance lane pass.
He didn't cut the course. He used actual road to pass and did it at speed. Anyone that pulls out of pit lane is at the same speed in that area, no speed limits imposed. Its a missed call by the referees.
He didn't cut the course. He used actual road to pass and did it at speed. Anyone that pulls out of pit lane is at the same speed in that area, no speed limits imposed. Its a missed call by the referees.
from LG
First incident in pit out lane: the rule is there because there are always cars coming out of the pits and they have to travel around past turn 2 to enter the track. So driving 4 wheels into that lane is just asking for trouble. If there was a car coming out of the pits then, it would have been really bad for them.
First incident in pit out lane: the rule is there because there are always cars coming out of the pits and they have to travel around past turn 2 to enter the track. So driving 4 wheels into that lane is just asking for trouble. If there was a car coming out of the pits then, it would have been really bad for them.
Last edited by John Shiels; 10-12-2009 at 05:27 AM.
10-12-2009, 05:18 AM
#36
Team Owner
into the wall.
So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.
Last edited by John Shiels; 10-12-2009 at 05:27 AM.
10-12-2009, 06:33 AM
#37
Joe, honestly; I was at the track, the announcers are yelling for the guys on the podium to smile and lift their trophies into the air for the cameras. Not to mention those guys just won a championship, which represents a year's worth of hard work and high quality for the ENTIRE CREW. How do you think the guys who just spent 12 months of their life dedicated to the program with bloody knuckles would feel if Jorg was standing up there looking glum?
Go watch the SPEED coverage again; Jorg was not happy with how it ended. The Lizards have been a class organization in the past, even to the point of the ownership personally apologizing (in person) to other teams if they happen to touch during practice. You do not see that kind of professionalism from many teams up and down the pit wall.
This debate honestly isn't headed anywhere, so let's agree to disagree and table it.
Go watch the SPEED coverage again; Jorg was not happy with how it ended. The Lizards have been a class organization in the past, even to the point of the ownership personally apologizing (in person) to other teams if they happen to touch during practice. You do not see that kind of professionalism from many teams up and down the pit wall.
This debate honestly isn't headed anywhere, so let's agree to disagree and table it.
10-12-2009, 07:41 AM
#38
Race Director
Lou I greatly respect your views and opinions.. who to better know whats going on then one of the drivers and team owners... but looking at that video again and again it really looks like the P-car drove the vette in to the wall.. it seems even the announcers mentioned it..
.. I'm not saying the corvette team has been racing clean or has treated you fairly... It just doesn't look like the p-car was making a straight b-line for the finish..
..maybe its the camera angles.. didn't Bergmiester admit to putting him in the wall?!?!
not sure what I think about this one.. i'll probably rely on the officials reviews and your first hand account and caulk it off as 'Racin' ..
..Next year is going to be a FANTASTIC year.. CANT WAIT!!!
.. I'm not saying the corvette team has been racing clean or has treated you fairly... It just doesn't look like the p-car was making a straight b-line for the finish..
..maybe its the camera angles.. didn't Bergmiester admit to putting him in the wall?!?!
not sure what I think about this one.. i'll probably rely on the officials reviews and your first hand account and caulk it off as 'Racin' ..
..Next year is going to be a FANTASTIC year.. CANT WAIT!!!
Last edited by Z06_BluByU; 10-12-2009 at 07:47 AM.
10-12-2009, 08:03 AM
#39
Melting Slicks
I will give a full race report later but the short story is that Drissi spun with the tires down to the cords trying to do yellow fuel only stops in his stint.
That caused a green flag stop which lost us another lap (two so far).
Then with Tom Sutherland in the car, the water bottle hose broke so he was really having a hard time continuing. So we had another green flag stop for another lap plus loss, and that cooked our goose.
The 21 car? I don't know. I know that they got some kind of break in their fuel tank size.
More later,
Thanks
Lou G
That caused a green flag stop which lost us another lap (two so far).
Then with Tom Sutherland in the car, the water bottle hose broke so he was really having a hard time continuing. So we had another green flag stop for another lap plus loss, and that cooked our goose.
The 21 car? I don't know. I know that they got some kind of break in their fuel tank size.
More later,
Thanks
Lou G
And your right (I had forgotten), the Panoz is allowed 95.0L fuel capacity
