BrianCunningham

That's why I got adjustables.

Not for trying different settings on the track, as good as that is, but for resetting them for the street after an event's over.

wishihad1-2

I think the correct term is less roll stiffness. The negative sounding "crosstalk" is simply another name for roll stiffness. Roll stiffness sure does sound nicer. When the leaf is removed and replaced with same rate coils the total roll stiffness of the car is less than GM designed. That may or may not be a good thing depending on your purpose.

jcmbird

so will t1 springs and good shocks out perform typical track rate coilovers [lg pfadt moton penske etc.] and cost less? Do any of you guys with coilovers beat a t1 sprung car [prob. dumb ?] I don't think most people are going to change spring rate or ride height that often with there coilovers. I'm also talking a retail basis. coil overs look to run 2-4 grand.maybe I'm wrong. plus they need tinkering also. Thanks all Jay

gkmccready

The driver will make more difference than coilovers vs T1. A really good driver in a stock car will slaughter an average driver with the best of the best coilovers.

That being said, I really like my DRM Bilstein coilovers...

Vicious-Z06

I went Lg Coilovers and T1 sways bars. I chose this set up because I'm not a professional and did not want to be tinkering around with shock stiffness and coil rate, blah, blah, blah......

LG sells the package to work hand and hand... I don't know what others feel.. But I can tell you my car feels much stiffer, much less body roll, and rebounds quicker over bumps in the road when street driving. I also feel like the tires have better contact with the road, street and.... driving over the rumble strips at the track..

I felt that with too many adjustments I will probably make the handling worse than stock and be spending more time trying to dial the car in... Now.... I spend most of the time flying around the track, whick is what I enjoy most

John Shiels

leafs are easy too you just need to know where to start. I have never seen a coil-over Vette make me feel left behind int he twisties. I would like a shock upgrade from what I have the re-valved Bilstiens but they are not bad either. I personally think T-1 leafs are to soft from what I have seen at the track. Stiffer leaf or coil-overs I would say would be faster on most tracks.

mousecatcher

irrelevant. we are talking about the same driver with different setups.

BrianCunningham

How's a variable rate leaf easy to do?

gkmccready

I suggest you re-read post #23 again. Or here, let me help you:

Sure looks to me like the very direct question asks about one driver in a coilover equipped car beating another driver in a T1 sprung car...

L98Terror

Why would you want to do that?



Moral of the story is you can do all sorts of crazy stuff but nothing will make you faster than seat time, seat time & more seat time. All this BS about what is better is that BS most people have no idea because they can't even drive their car at even 90% of what it's capable of.

To give you a perfect example, Last year at the NASA National Championships I lead all but one lap (in ST2) of one of the qualifying races, got to the lead of the Championship race and ran the fastest lap during the race, all in a car that we later found out was missing a couple valves in the shocks (don't get me started on that one).

So I went from T1 springs, F'ed up shocks, a brake bais(it was installed wrong by the previous owner), a seat that was so low and far back I could barly see over the dash and had to fully extend to push the cluch in and shift to great feeling brakes, supposably correctly built Penske 8760s, a dual rate coil over, correct seating position and have only picked up about 1 second at Mid Ohio. Also keep in mind I now have 10 times more time behind the wheel of that car.

drivinhard

My favorite is when an F1 car rips off a $20k aero winglet that cost $2 million in wind tunnel time, and lap time stays the same

BrianCunningham

I wouldn't, I'd just run variable rate coil overs like your doing right now.

L98Terror

The answer is yes but in most cases if you switch cars the result would be the same.

I know you didn't ask the question but I've beaten cars with T1 Sprung car and a coil over sprung car with a OEM GM sprung car, so that kind of throws all your what do you do data out the window. At 2007 nationals I won TTA with OEM suspension and was faster than all but one TTS car and most of them had coil overs. There is no true right answer there are some very fast cars running coil overs and some very fast cars running leaf springs

And the don't always cost less, springs for coil overs are much less than leaf springs, shock are pretty equal in cost for either.

95jersey

I think it comes down to whatever makes you feel comfortable as a driver to inspire confidence. Also, one may be just as fast in a less prepared car, but how much more input and fighting from the driver is required to get to the car to do what the driver is asking? I can literally sit in my LG coil-over car with thumbs on the wheel, relaxed through the tuffest turns. The car doesn't move around, dive and is very predictable. I "personally" did not get the same feeling with the OEM leafs.

Take some of the Nurburg video's of GM testing the Z06 and ZR1 gettin air and sliding all over the place, it was quoted by Jan M that he did not want to spend another minute in the car on that track trying to get those lap times again. He was able to get an amazing time and be as fast as any big $$$ exotic, but you can tell from his fustration that is was less than a "pleasant" experience.

Mods to your car should inspire confidence and make your overall driving experience more pleasureable. For me the stiffer suspension with improved rebound inspires me to drive faster more comfortably. Whether you choose leafs or coil-overs is really about availability and cost. I looked into new T1 kits and the price was 2X LG's and even more than Penske dual rates, for me it was a no brainer.

John Shiels

leafs are easy if you get the right setup the first time and don't have to switch and swap.

BrianCunningham

no John, the variable rate part

mousecatcher

ah, sorry. I was referring to the general gist of the thread as given in the first 22 posts. (95% of the posts up to that point.) of course you were responding directly to the previous post so my comment was out of place!

as the gentleman said, it was a dumb question.

mousecatcher

Yes but with all that seat time you may be at the point where 1 second is a lot of time.

jcmbird

after further pondering and discussion with friends. What spring rate are you guys running? 300lbs? 600lbs? 900lbs? [how much is too much for street] and what is stock c5 zo6 vs. t1. Lets leave out driver skill, I'm sure we are all the best drivers! Thanks for all your help. Jay

ScaryFast

With all due respect, that's the absolute LAST thing you should leave out.

You're already driving a C5Z. It's a damn fast car with NO mods other than safety and brake pads. When you're running within a few seconds of a T1 car at your local track, then it's time to start modifying. Until then, you're completely wasting your money.

If you're not racing or spending time to develop your car to the utmost of its capability then coil overs are a "feel good" mod that people do for three reasons:

1. Everyone on the internet tells them the need them to be fast
2. Most shadetree mechanics can do it themselves
3. They look cool and you can show them to people at cruise-ins and say your car is modified

None of these make you faster on the race track. Look at what the guys here that actually race (L98, gonzalez, rfn, Farmer, etc) are telling you - learn to drive the p!ss out of your car first, then start making changes.

How many heat cycles on your Hoosiers? 10? 15? More? You'll get more improvement from a set of new tires than from a $3000 set of coil overs. Guaranteed.

It's your car and your money, do what you want. If you enjoy tinkering, get in there and put on some modifications. If you really want to improve your lap times then spend some time in the seat. The problem is that this takes work, and most aren't willing to put in the time.

Spend some money, slap on a mod, get 1 second faster without improving as a driver. This is great fun until the guy in the stock Z blows by you by 3 seconds a lap...