Chaparral 2F
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Chaparral 2F
Some of you will remember the Chaparral Can-Am cars. They are on display at one of our local museums. One stipulation Jim Hall had was that the cars would have to remain race-ready. Occassionally they take the cars out and drive them around.
Yesterday they took the 2F out.
That Chevy 427 sounded awesome when they cranked it up.
I thought it was odd that they had a license plate on the car.
It even has turn signals. I don't remember the story but I think the cars had to be licensed to qualify for racing at some time....
The cockpit is pretty sparse. That racing seat is definitely bare-bones. I don't think it had any padding and is reclined about 30*.
Yesterday they took the 2F out.
That Chevy 427 sounded awesome when they cranked it up.
I thought it was odd that they had a license plate on the car.
It even has turn signals. I don't remember the story but I think the cars had to be licensed to qualify for racing at some time....
The cockpit is pretty sparse. That racing seat is definitely bare-bones. I don't think it had any padding and is reclined about 30*.
#4
Le Mans Master
The ingenuity Jim Hall brought to the game was astonishing.
Did you notice, there were no rearview mirrors on that car.
Did you notice, there were no rearview mirrors on that car.
#5
Jim Hall
I got to see most of Jim's cars race at Laguna Seca in the 60-70's when the Can Am had the fastest cars on the planet. The 2J was amazing to watch at turn 9. Seemed like it was 10- 15 miles per hour faster in that corner than others.
#7
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Rumor has it that a group is looking at fixing up Rattlesnake raceway and opening it up like the other private tracks. They would have to widen the track since it was built for testing one car at a time.
That would be because it is about 15 minutes from my house.
When I first moved out here I saw the Chaparral building but never thought anything about it. It is pretty unassuming. Hard to believe so much ingenuity came from these little garages in the desert.
I drove tours on the track during the grand opening of the Chaparral wing of the museum. I also got to drive Phil Hill around the track in my truck. I asked if he wanted to drive but he declined. He said when they first came to Rattlesnake they were told if they went off course "do not get out of your car"....they named it rattlesnake for a reason.
That would be because it is about 15 minutes from my house.
When I first moved out here I saw the Chaparral building but never thought anything about it. It is pretty unassuming. Hard to believe so much ingenuity came from these little garages in the desert.
I drove tours on the track during the grand opening of the Chaparral wing of the museum. I also got to drive Phil Hill around the track in my truck. I asked if he wanted to drive but he declined. He said when they first came to Rattlesnake they were told if they went off course "do not get out of your car"....they named it rattlesnake for a reason.
#8
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I've run into him and his wife a few times at local restaurants. Nice guy. My wife did a story about him in the local paper in 2002. I was as excited as a kid on Christmas morning when she told me. We got on the internet so she could learn about the Chaparrals. She was told Jim does not like most reporters because they don't get the story right most of the time. She won him over by her knowledge. He was really surprised when she said she researched him and the cars on the internet. He had no idea he was on the internet.
I could go on and on about the stories he told and those from the drivers.
#10
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I looked closer and thought that was odd not to have mirrors. Communications could not have been very good back then so it would be important for the driver to see what was behind him.
If you look at the picture from the back you can see a little black rectangle on the roof between the gullwing doors. That is a periscope rearview mirror.
You really can't see out the back window because of the little velocity stack intakes sticking up. You would not want the added drag of external mirrors so they came up with this.
They put alot of thought into aerodynamics and wind resistance.
If you look at the picture from the back you can see a little black rectangle on the roof between the gullwing doors. That is a periscope rearview mirror.
You really can't see out the back window because of the little velocity stack intakes sticking up. You would not want the added drag of external mirrors so they came up with this.
They put alot of thought into aerodynamics and wind resistance.
#11
Le Mans Master
A part of the Chaparral lore that ought to receive more attention is
the role that Mr Hall's wife played in the development of the body
shapes. I can't find the reference just now but will post when I do.
However, my understanding is that she was right there shaving foam
into the wee hours of the night.
The book, 'Race Car Vehicle Dynamics' by Millican & Millican describes
several of the key moments in the period of discovery that Frank Winchell,
William Millican, Hall and the rest of the team went through in the 60's.
The world works in mysterious ways. The section in the book describes
how preparations for the defense of the handling of the Corvair led to a
meeting between Winchell and Hall. Chaparral and Corvette both had
an interest in developing mid-engine rear drive performance vehicles.
Chev officially got out of racing. Hall had a track facility located in a
remote part of Texas and the rest is history ...
.
Last edited by Slalom4me; 03-12-2008 at 03:10 PM.
#12
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D**M!! I drove right by the place on my way from CA to FL and never realized there was a museum in Midland with the Chapperals even though I knew Jim Hall was based there. A point of racing history, 2J was first car to connect wing directly to suspension hubs outboard of springs. Downforce from wing went straight through hubs to tires. If I remember correctly it was outlawed pretty quickly when other competitors saw the car. Same was true of next gen Sucker Chapparal.
Jim Hall and his team were visionaries the likes of Colin Chapman and Smokey Yunick. I can't give any higher praise.
Larry
Jim Hall and his team were visionaries the likes of Colin Chapman and Smokey Yunick. I can't give any higher praise.
Larry
#13
Le Mans Master
Larry, it is not the same but here is a taste of what to look for on
the next trip through.
Official Chaparral Website
Petroleum Museum: Tour of Chaparral Cars Gallery
.
the next trip through.
Official Chaparral Website
Petroleum Museum: Tour of Chaparral Cars Gallery
.
#14
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
A point of racing history, 2J was first car to connect wing directly to suspension hubs outboard of springs. Downforce from wing went straight through hubs to tires. If I remember correctly it was outlawed pretty quickly when other competitors saw the car. Same was true of next gen Sucker Chapparal.
#15
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
You asked for it
(these are from my memories of what Jim Hall and some of the drivers and crew had to say during the grand opening and other events.)
********
I think it was Robert Donner who said he was driving one of their first cars and the front got very light on the straights. He came to the pits and said he could on the straights and the car would not move - like the tires weren't touching the ground. He asked what he could do. They answered - slow down!
That is when Hall started experimenting with downforce. He figured if you turned a wing upside down, instead of lift it would produce downforce.
*******
They did not have access to wind tunnels back then so to see how air flowed over the body they would put little drops of oil around the car and then drive on the track Hall had built back of the shop. We have lots of dirt out here so the dirt would stick to the oil as it streamed down the body. They could see exactly how it moved.
********
Vic Elford drove the 2J sucker car. He said when they started the snowmobile engine that powered the 2 fans he could feel the car go down a few inches while it was sitting still on the grid. He said they could fly around corners because of the extra grip.
They outlawed cars with more than 1 engine after its one and only season.
********
Hall was doing tire testing for Firestone. They still ran on narrow tires (by today's standards). Hall had some wheels widened and they mounted the tires on them. Firestone saw that the wheels were wider than the tires so they made some wider tires. Hall again widened the wheels and Firestone again made wider tires. That is how they started running on wide racing tires.
*********
Phil Hill was driving the 2D (one of the enclosed cars). It had started raining and the windshield got really dirty - so much that the windshield wiper would not clean it off. He pulled offline, took off his seat belts, opened the door and crawled out enough to wipe off the windshield. He then climed back in and took off. He pulled in the pits to get rain tires and clean the windshield. The crew was packing up! He asked why. They said the announcer said the Chaparral had broken down and the driver was climbing out - so they started packing up.
*********
ok last one....
Jim Hall was driving when he wrecked (or broke down). His wife was really worried when he didn't come back to the pits and they didn't see him on the track. They eventually jumped in a truck and went looking for him. They found him sitting with some spectators enjoying a cold one.
***********
We are lucky to have so many Chaparral cars still around. They would usually take one and modify it to make the next gen car or take parts off the old ones to make the newer ones.
(these are from my memories of what Jim Hall and some of the drivers and crew had to say during the grand opening and other events.)
********
I think it was Robert Donner who said he was driving one of their first cars and the front got very light on the straights. He came to the pits and said he could on the straights and the car would not move - like the tires weren't touching the ground. He asked what he could do. They answered - slow down!
That is when Hall started experimenting with downforce. He figured if you turned a wing upside down, instead of lift it would produce downforce.
*******
They did not have access to wind tunnels back then so to see how air flowed over the body they would put little drops of oil around the car and then drive on the track Hall had built back of the shop. We have lots of dirt out here so the dirt would stick to the oil as it streamed down the body. They could see exactly how it moved.
********
Vic Elford drove the 2J sucker car. He said when they started the snowmobile engine that powered the 2 fans he could feel the car go down a few inches while it was sitting still on the grid. He said they could fly around corners because of the extra grip.
They outlawed cars with more than 1 engine after its one and only season.
********
Hall was doing tire testing for Firestone. They still ran on narrow tires (by today's standards). Hall had some wheels widened and they mounted the tires on them. Firestone saw that the wheels were wider than the tires so they made some wider tires. Hall again widened the wheels and Firestone again made wider tires. That is how they started running on wide racing tires.
*********
Phil Hill was driving the 2D (one of the enclosed cars). It had started raining and the windshield got really dirty - so much that the windshield wiper would not clean it off. He pulled offline, took off his seat belts, opened the door and crawled out enough to wipe off the windshield. He then climed back in and took off. He pulled in the pits to get rain tires and clean the windshield. The crew was packing up! He asked why. They said the announcer said the Chaparral had broken down and the driver was climbing out - so they started packing up.
*********
ok last one....
Jim Hall was driving when he wrecked (or broke down). His wife was really worried when he didn't come back to the pits and they didn't see him on the track. They eventually jumped in a truck and went looking for him. They found him sitting with some spectators enjoying a cold one.
***********
We are lucky to have so many Chaparral cars still around. They would usually take one and modify it to make the next gen car or take parts off the old ones to make the newer ones.
#16
Le Mans Master
Reaching into my memory from back in the 60's when I read Road & Track, and it seems like I remember reading that Jim Hall was an aerodymanic engineer with a degree from Stanford. But he made all his money in the oil fields.
Also, seems I remember reading the they used a Powerglide transmission in the cars with the movable wing so the the "clutch" foot could be used to operate a pedal that moved the wing.
Also, seems I remember reading the they used a Powerglide transmission in the cars with the movable wing so the the "clutch" foot could be used to operate a pedal that moved the wing.
#17
Le Mans Master
I looked closer and thought that was odd not to have mirrors. Communications could not have been very good back then so it would be important for the driver to see what was behind him.
If you look at the picture from the back you can see a little black rectangle on the roof between the gullwing doors. That is a periscope rearview mirror.
You really can't see out the back window because of the little velocity stack intakes sticking up. You would not want the added drag of external mirrors so they came up with this.
They put alot of thought into aerodynamics and wind resistance.
If you look at the picture from the back you can see a little black rectangle on the roof between the gullwing doors. That is a periscope rearview mirror.
You really can't see out the back window because of the little velocity stack intakes sticking up. You would not want the added drag of external mirrors so they came up with this.
They put alot of thought into aerodynamics and wind resistance.
Yep, I see it. Good info!
#18
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
There is a pedal to operate the wing. The driver held the pedal down to flatten the wing for top speed. As he approaced the corner he took his foot off the pedal and the wing popped up for more downforce.
#19
Safety Car
#20
Le Mans Master
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Jim Hall was one of the reasons I became an engineer. Along with Kelly Johnson of Lockheed Skunk Works, they had more innovation than any other 10 men. These cars are remarkable, and I really long for the days when brains like this could be demonstrated. Contrast that era with today where in NASCAR, Indy, and F1 they are now spec car series, yawn...
What we need is a Formula Libre, no rules except for basic size and safety things.
What we need is a Formula Libre, no rules except for basic size and safety things.