Olitho

I would have to see that to believe it....

rustyguns

I was single when i had the Porsche...

One weekend had enough money for parts or take out girlfriend

Oh well............ I really liked that girl too

ProgGod

Believe it or not i like the porsche because in a pinch i can put kids in the back seat Makes my wife more accepting of it!

Bill Dearborn

I think the Mustang is probably still the low cost way to go. I know several people who have well less than $10K into their cars and they are quite fast around the track. One guy actually computed his overall cost (not counting his labor) at putting his latest tang on the track at $200. That included the purchase of two wrecks, combining of required parts and selling off the stuff he didn't want.

Another guy hit the wall at the Glen with his car and smashed the grille quite badly so replaced it with the remnants of a metal supper market shelf he found in a junk yard. It was welded to both front fenders but did an excellent job of holding the car together. You can do things like that when you have a cheap car.

Bill

Cobra4B

The GTS Panoz has a 5.8 liter 450 horse Ford Racing crate motor (carb'd) with custom headman long tubes, a TKO gearbox, and Pensek coil-overs.

Our car has a stock 5.0, a Tremec 3550 trans, and Koni shocks with only 3 rebound settings, also has no diff cooler.

To make our car competitive it would need a new motor, gearbox, and shocks... but the chassis and everything else is the same which is why it was a steal at 23k. For 10k more we could have the equivalent of a $80,000 GTS race car.

If anything I'd go racing in ST2 next year. The car would need 320ish rwhp to be competitive which can be had with a $2500 H/C/I package.

Akcelr8 N VA

OK, since nobody else here said it I've got to suggest a C4 Corvette. They can be had cheaply, and with the correct alignment handle extremely well. I started with mine as in stock LT1, added safety equipment, four point "roll" bar, seats and harness and upgraded the brakes (C5 caliper and rotors, stainless lines) and it was more than capable for my first four seasons of HPDEs. It was extremely dependable and could run in the top of each of my HPDE groups. After my skills improved I started with the engine mods. If I had it to do over again I probably would have sold the C4 at that point and gotten a Z06, but I still love my C4. Look for a C4 with the Z07 or Z51 suspension and go out there and have some fun!!!

Cobra4B

I considered a C4 track rat but my research showed that the "required" mods to make a C4 worth a heck on track would get you right to FRC price territory so the consensus (from most all C4 owners) was to just start with a C5 coupe or FRC.

heavychevy

+1, I know for a fact that's not true here at RA. I have seen some E36 M3's tun about 4 seconds slower than T1, and that was with James Clay, who's a pro BMW driver in the seat. But the only car in the range of T1 was at the BMWCCA Race, an E30 with wide body, sequential, completely gutted, tons of downforce and quite a bit of HP. And he was only running 1:32's and 1:33's which is what T1 runs.

But I assume it could be competitive with some T1 guys, just not the best ones, and not at all tracks either. But for the power they make, they are very fast, just not T1 fast.

Olitho

At my last race, the Beemers were running 5 seconds back in both qualifying and the race.

I am not saying they are not a fine car. In fact I think they are great car to race or do HPDE. They are just not T1 fast.

Aardwolf

I think they are fine with just brake cooling ducts. Very reasonable and fun car. I guess it depends on what class you want to run and what lap times.

OKsweetrides

Fox-bodies are cheap to do.
E36's are interesting when they get into the 2000-2200lb range.

ScaryFast

Sure, check out the NASA nationals results here:

http://racenasa.nasamidwest.com/resu...eventID=252214

Lots of M3's in GTS 3 class in the 1:33 - 1:35 range.

Last time T1 was at M-O the leaders were in the 1:33-1:34 range. And one could argue that the T1 leaders are more experienced (faster?) drivers than NASA folks.

GT3 power to weight ratio is 11 lbs / hp, T1 is closer to 8.5 : 1.

The only cars faster than this were the STU / ST1 cars with a ratio of 5.5 : 1.

So...there you have it. And before everyone starts flaming me because I've mentioned a car that can be as fast as the almighty Z06, note that I realize the rules are different for these two classes...my point is simply that an E36 M3 can be extremely fast. Most of those GTS3 cars can be had for between $20-30K. A Phoenix T1 car is closer to $50K.

ScaryFast

Apparently you didn't talk to me I think the "required" mods are vastly overblown on the CF. The real achilles in those cars is the stiffness, and you were going to put a cage in it, anyway. All the other crap that people say you need (coil-overs, brakes, power, etc) is BS. Sure, they help, but you can be fast without them. Did you check out the TCC website?

Although I think you made a fine choice with your Panoz. Certainly a fantastic track car...

Cobra4B

Haha... mostly it was the chassis bracing needed to sure up the suspension so it would hold allignment and the inferior rear suspension geometry when compared to the C5 platform.

Olitho

I looked at those results in that link. I used qualifying times because that is representative of a best possible lap time. The fastest car in:
Class: SpecE30-SO
1 44 Chris Cobetto 1:43.480

I am not sure what other cars racing there that weekend might have been Beemers, but we are talking about mostly stock cars here. I don't think any of the Beemers actually being raced are close to stock. They are gutted, etc.

Here are some times I grabbed quickly from the Internet on T1 class cars. This was the first set I found:
SCCA T1 Mid Ohio National
Qualifying:
1. David Pintaric 2004 SRT10 Viper 1:36.361
2. Ed Amonsen C6 Corvette 1:37.546
3. John Buttermore C6 Corvette 1:37.682
4. David Sanders C5 Corvette 1:38.514

Granted Beemers can be made to go fast, they are fine cars, but "mostly stock" as this thread author specified there is no comparison.

Lastly, T1 cars prepped and sold by Phoenix will go for anywhere from $30k to $50k, but in reality, in the open market, most of the cars are going for $30k, plus or minus $5k.

This is not a flame, I just vigorously disagree that stockish BMW touring and improved touring class cars are a match for "stockish" T1 class Corvettes, Vipers, GT3s or Ferraris. They are still fine race cars and HPDE cars, they just won't turn the same lap times.

ScaryFast

Yikes, looks like my linky no worky. Spec E30 is a far cry from an E36 M3, they are cars from the 80's and have about 130 hp

Here's a cut/paste of the E36 M3 lap times, 1:34's as mentioned above.

Class: GTS3

1 305 Randy Mueller 1:33.694
2 88 Scott Berkowitz 1:34.842
3 001 Sean Tillinghast 1:34.778
4 46 Ryan Osiecki 1:35.690


But I will agree with one thing, these are race cars not street cars. Although I'd hardly call a T1 car "stock-ish." So to summarize my point:

1) If it's a bang for the buck discussion, you can make an M3 (or other car) as fast as a Z06 for similar or less money

2) If it's the best street car that can run on track, then I agree with the Z06. Look at Ken Smith, bone stock Z06 with T1 bars and R tires ran 1:33's...

Aardwolf

Though I don't know what track is fine without cooling ducts. I had no brakes at all after three laps at Road America on the stock setup. With cooling they worked fine, I modded to the C5 setup just to get cheap pads.

ProgGod

Brakes are a weak point of any car, especially for drivers who are hard on the brakes.

rustyguns

i almost bought a nice C4 for 6,000 Then i drove FRC it was a lot nicer but then.......... I drove a C5 Z06 and fell in love

instead of cash i got a loan, kinda crazy but geez, the thing is a monster!

Bad financial move but its LOVE Happy Valentines Day

mwvettec5