tjZ06

Any more info. on these? Are they suitable for street use?

-TJ

BQuicksilver

Smith brothers wasn't sure, but later called Wheel to Wheel for me and they said that the .040 restrictors were fine for street duty.

fatbillybob

I have studied this issue a little and think I understand what is happening and I think I have a solution. First how it works:
Smog police mandate that a car can make zero emissions so your block needs to breath and the air going up and down from the cylinders can make negative to slightly positive block pressure. That air in the block is more when the rpms are up. That air is oily air (hydrocarbon air) and can no longer be emitted in the atmosphere like in the old days just a tube from the valve cover hanging under the car AKA draft tube. So smart smog police came up with purging the oily air into your intake manifold so it can be burned. Some of the oil/air enters upstream of the MAF hotwire sensors or can foul MAP sensors thus your bad idle. Some oil settles out fo the air in the intake tract and can foul these sensors even if they enter the intake down stream of these sensors. Also if you just use a catch can you can actually force more oil into your intake than with no breather!

fatbillybob

So now the solution:

You need to use catch cans with a breather large enough to catch the spill off. Some people also run radiator overflow from the oem radiator catch tank to the breather catch can too. So you run hose from the valve covers to the catch can and you remove the access hose to the intake track and plug it. You will now not pass smog but can still pass the tailpipe sniff test. You may be able to pass smog if you are clever with your disguise or the tech isn't so smart. Catch can with breather allows you to vent the crank case air and catch the oil. It is nice to get a catch can brather with a spigot for easy emptying. You also want small check valves in the valve cover lines so you can't backwash into the catch can or suck coolant if you are also using the catch can as a coolant catch as well. That is why these are also known as dump cans. Many people will have high oil consumption, especially on the track, due to this blowby from the valve cover and mistake this oil consumption for a bad engine. Well if I left out anything please correct me.

BQuicksilver

Great posts fatbillybob!!

Can you expand on this somewhat?

Also, do you have a can with breather that you've found to work well?

XGRANDSPORTX

Had a catch can with a breather installed when my engine was stroked to 383. At the track I would puke oil out of the breather during a 20 min track event. After installing progressively larger catch cans with no change in the problem, the problem was finally solved. A fitting was attached to the bottom of the catch can and the oil pan with a line going to the oil pan for the oil to return to the pan. End of problem

Alan

fatbillybob

Sure....In my mind the oil from the valve covers should be passively emitted. Thus the old draft tube and pcv valve breather cap on the valve covers of the 50's -60's otherwise you would have oil just dripping from cars in the 50's-60's.

If you route the valve cover tube to the intake, the manifold vaccum negative pressure helps pull the oily fumes into the engine to be burned. Now if you have a situation in your motor which makes positive pressure oily mist emit from your valve cover then you have the situation alan talkes about above.

Under alan's conditions he did the right thing which is to basically make a circuit of oil flow but then the "catch can" is not really fuctioning as a catch can but an oil separator like in a dry sump tank where bubbly oily air is forced into and then travels thru all kinds of baffles to break the air out of the oil. So if you have alan's problem his solution is one idea for a closed system of oil return but air is bled off to the atmosphere.

If you have a more typical situation of really just oily air vapor emitted from the valve cover then you can use the same catch can to truely "catch" that small amount of oil in the vapor and not route it to the sump while the air in the engine is relieved. You can also then tie your coolant overflow here too and have a sealed system that will not drop fluids on the track which is the main idea of a breather/catch can.

These are two really different situations. So if small oil you can catch oil and coolant. Big oil you make alan's circuit system.

On a final note, I don't know enough about heavy oil vapor. I think under alan's conditions lots of micro air bubbles are trapped in the oil and if he really has huge blowby oil traveling in this circuit then he needs a baffled tank like a mini dry sump tank to help break up the air out of the oil otherwise my fear would be poor lubrication by aearated oil. If for example you overfill your crankcase and the crankshaft bangs the oil bath you can foam the oil and actually oil starve a motor eventhough you have too much oil in the case! I wonder if alan may be creating a longevity problem in his motor by having aearated oil return to the sump. I guess it all depends on what the oil looks like as it drips out of the catch can going back to the sump.

Here is a link to a combined breather catch can:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecId=2495

I hope that helps

BQuicksilver

Here's a vid of the issue. It looks like it was only a problem when I was off the throttle.

http://www.indyhpmedia.com/index.php...anOilIssue.wmv

Cobra4B

This is odd... I just ran VIR this weekend and had maybe 2 table spoons of oil in my catch can.

I overfilled by a quart and the oil level maintained... maybe dropped 1/4 of a quart max. I never had to add oil.

Same for my father.

Could it be stupid and simple... that you have a bad PCV valve sticking not allowing the pressure to be vented properly then forcing oil out the fresh air feed line in the passenger side valve cover?

DALE C

I use a Canton 1 quart baffled catch can with a breather I just have 1 line from the right side valve cover and one line from the valley vent nothing going to the intake. I have no problems with a 7600 RPM redline on a very very tired engine. The only time I have had any problems was due to a stuck accusump valve leaving the engine 3 quarts over full on oil.
Think about how much vacum you have at the catch can during a road race on off throttle condition with the lines running to the intake.
I also think the restricted push rods are a very good idea they can not hurt. My new motor will have them in it.

Z06cool

Same here at VIR this weekend. I wrapped a rag around the breather to help catch the excess.... The smoke was visible enough to be questioned about it after pulling into the PITs before the paddock.

tcmc5

DALE C may be using something like this one. TPIS sells it but it looks like a Canton product. On my car I needed at least 16oz. capacity because it puked so much oil. Don't know how much this one will hold but it's probably big enough for most.
http://www.tpis.com/index.php?module...Oil+Components

Hitechzo6

EXACTLY what I did when I ran my 383. Worked good. Also ran the pushrods with smaller feed holes. This year I went with a dry sump and alleviated any and all track oiling problems.

BQuicksilver

So you guys with the restricted pushrods were previously having similar problems as I am, and it cured things?

I had a miserable day at Putnam yesterday dodging black flags.

I've noticed it was worse in 5 and 9 after the two left-handers. I'm not sure if that was b/c the two lefts at Putnam are long turns or if it's an issue with lefts in general. It also smokes on rights, just not quite as badly.

Cobra4B

There has to be something else in the motor causing it to use that much oil. It would most likely fill a catch can up.

BQuicksilver

I think I agree, I just am not sure what.

I like the idea of the restricted pushrods, but I keep asking myself if that's just a band-aid on a *real* problem...or if this is 'normal' with harder driving.

I'll do a compression test in the next 48hrs.

If normal I could feel fine with the PR's and a big puke tank like Danny and Dale run. The fact that Danny and Dale run these (i'm pretty sure) tells me that it may be somewhat normal to see this issue. I presume they have the resources to get to the heart of the issue if it was abnormal.

Either way, I'm not touching another race surface until this is fixed.

Also, I've noticed that I can wrap out 1-4th repeatedly and go into a high vacuum (TB closed) state without any notable smoke. This only comes up after hard cornering.

Cobra4B

Not all LSXs use that much oil... check your PCV valve, start simple! I had a bad oil comsumption problem when I bought my car. Had the valley cover replaced and the re-ring done back in early 2004. Car uses maybe 1/2 a quart between 6000-8000 mile oil changes now. However, it's rare that I go that long w/o a track event where I do overfill by 1 quart still.

You might want to ditch your LS1 PCV for the LS6 PCV and still run it to the catch can.

Your setup may be forcing too much oil through the ports in the valve covers.

On the LS6 the passenger side cover only has the fresh air port which has an oil blocker on the bottom side of the cover.

It's worth a shot... I was running my car to 6400-6500 rpms most of the time, 6800 sometimes (7000 rpm limiter) all weekend. When I checked my catch can it had maybe 1/4" of oil in it and the *** end of my car only had a little fuel residue from the WOT.

My father's '04 Z06 was the same.

It's worth a shot as the parts aren't that expensive and the swap isn't that hard.

DALE C

I know this is a long shot but have you changed to the new style dipstick tube that bolts to the head due to headers? I ordered a new dipstick and tube for a car and the parts guy screwed up and sent me a new design tube and an old design stick I caught it on the oil change but it will put the car a couple quarts over.

Another thought. Can you duplicate the problem with the car sitting static. If you bring the RPM's up and down will it smoke? If so that would eliminate the problems with the valve cover filling up under cornering.
Another quick test would be to pull the line off the exit of your catch can plug the intake or TB and run the line into a jug or container of some type drive the car and see if you are still filling up the catch can and jug (start with an empty catch can) If so you really need to do a leak down test. A compression test will show an obvious problem but will not always show a broken ring or piston skirt.

Good luck and call me if there is anything I can help with.

BQuicksilver

Put a new PCV valve on between events. No change.

I have a VERY early 02 coupe. Is there any chance my car could have the crummy rings?

I'm seriously considering this, but I'm not certain exactly what the advantages are yet. If you can tell me where the gain is in changing the PCV to LS6 I'm all ears. If both systems end in me having a puke tank up front I may be less inspired to drop the $$.

So I guess it pays to read posts fully before replying. Thanks, I didn't know that.

How much was the whole swap? I'm sick of this and ready to throw the wallet at it.

BQuicksilver

I still have the original dipstick, and after some sessions saw the low oil warning. I think it's genuinely tossing out oil to the point it's low.

I can't get it to smoke when stationary OR when under max acceleration in a straight line and lifting hard follwed by a heel-toe blip. I seem only able to replicate it under cornering loads at the track.

Dale, are you talking about the line from the PCV to intake manifold or the line from the pass valve cover to TB? The line from the PCV to mani has had an AMW catch can for some time and really doesn't appear to have much increase (if any) in volume caught during DD or track activity. I borrowed a friend's catch can at the last minute before Putnam and installed it between the valve cover to TB line. I may have installed it backwards or the can had some issue???? but the car popped out the dipstick tube up one session and had oil pouring out the top of the can another session. Two messes and I cut the 2nd can out and replaced it with the old OEM hose, which made the issue much more like what I saw at Grattan. Maybe that can give you some diagnostic info...the dipstick popping up was interesting I couldn't figure it out unless it was rings.

Thanks Dale, I really appreciate you chiming in here. I foresee a leakdown test in my future as well. I just don't own a compressor or good leakdown kit (i have the $39 HF leakdown kit). I'll do a compression test first just for sake of having some data to share.