alan33

I originally posted most of this as part of a response to a topic in the C5 technical section concerning transmission leaks, but I believe there would be more experience with this sort of idea in the Racing section so here goes:

quote from original poster:
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There is also a very good article in dec. issue of corvette fever on cooler installation.
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My reply:

I saw the article and that was what rekindled my driveline cooler interest. I talked to Bob at Fitchner Chevrolet and found out, after Bob warned me to sit down and bit my tongue, that the GM Performance Part Cooler retails for $1029 and Bob sells it for $875. Too rich for my blood, especially since it would require 2 if I wanted to cool both the Tranny and Diff. I then sent an email to DRM and never heard back on thier pricing and options.

My current thought is to fabricate my own. Problem is the location. I am not too wild about running oil lines the length of the car as the GM unit does. There is minimal room in the rear and airflow over the cooling coils would be an issue unless I used cooling coils with fans. My current feeling after staring at the underside of the car for a few minutes is to get a pair of the Z06 rear brake cooling screens and use them as the air supply not only for the rear brakes, but also to mount the coolers and pumps in the rear section of the rocker panels. I haven't taken them apart yet, but it looks like there should be room if nothing else significant is hidden in there. I will have to think about airflow volume, but my guess is that it will be O.K. Then it is only a matter of locating the few components required. Pumps, hoses and fittings, relay, temperature switch, and wire. I figure the major expense is a couple of quality pumps and the Z06 screens. Should be able to produce both cooling systems for just over half of the price of a single GM setup.

Just thinking out loud. Any suggestions, thoughts, or comments are appreciated.

Link to original thread: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=169499

Take Care,

Alan

h rocks

Contact teamzr1@teamzr1.com. John has done at least one of the two, and has much insight on the subject. He also found that the plugs on the GM units were wired incorrectly, and offers a fix as well.

davidfarmer

Yes they are definitely wired wrong.

You should consider getting oil/trans coolers that have electric fans built in if you want to mount them in the rear. You could use the rear cooling ducts I guess, but I'm not sure they actually flow any air.

I only paid $750 each for my GM coolers, and then you have to hunt fittings to get it to work with the diff, as the threads are metric.

Any race parts supplier (BSR, racer parts wholesale, etc) can get you the parts you need.

Dave

alan33

hrocks and Dave:

Thanks for the tips and advice. I will check out the sources provided and see what we can come up with. I had considered the fanned units in the rockers also, but the ones I found were fairly large and I wondered if they would fit at a decent angle. I will check for further fanned unit options and get under the skin to see what I have to work with. The more I thought about the size and angle of the Z06 screens the more I concur with your air flow volume comment. At least it might allow air in to a fanned unit. Back to the design board. Dave, I hope your car is back in one piece.

Thanks Again Gentlemen,

Alan

Slammed Vette

Chris,The guy that works on SW's car did the same cooler set-up(in the rear ducts)on SW's white car.The thing I'd like to know is why it is only for a M6 and not an A4!!!!!


[Modified by Slammed Vette, 11:29 PM 10/21/2001]

MikeFleischer

I have ordered two kits from DRM at $595 each for the diff and tranny. They should arrive this week sometime. I was told the install typically went with the coolers in the rear air ducts (Z06) and the pumps mount inside the rear wheel wells on the frame. I'll let you guys know how the install goes when I get the time to do the work.

Mike Fleischer

davidfarmer

Browsing through my HRP catalog, I may have found the setup you need. Fluidyne makes a combo cooler (part # DB30900) that has two 11x4x2" coolers comined with one big 7" 12volt fan. Overall size is 11"x8"x6" and the coolers have -8 fittings. $229

They sell 12v lube pumps (part # HR869) for $149, and it looks similar to the ones I run. You would need 2 of these.

-8 hose runs around $6 per foot for SS, and the -8 ends will run at least $8 each. Then you have to find fittings for the pumps and the trans and diff, which can be tricky. The trans fittings are standard pipe threads I think, but the rear is metric (20mm I think). If you can't find them, FLUIDAIR can get just about any type fitting/adapter you need.

FLUIDAIR 704596 5680
HRP 309 691 8789

alan33

Mike:

Please do let me know what you run into and how you like the DRM units. Any pictures or descriptions would also be appreciated for location of items.

Dave:

Thanks for looking up the parts. It looks like you found the big stuff. I will call HRP and Fluidair tomorrow. For the transmission and Differential plugs, if I have trouble finding them, I will get the stock units and drill and tap them if it looks like I can do it and still be able to install and remove them. I presume that by "-8 fittings" you are referring to the size and not the number of inlet/outlets.

Thanks to both of you for the input, the light bulb is starting to burn brighter.

Alan


[Modified by alan33, 10:44 PM 10/22/2001]

davidfarmer

Fluidair can get the fittings for you, it is just sometimes hard to know what exactly you need. The stock plugs are not large enough to tap and flow very well.

"-8" is the nomenclature used for racing style hose. -3 and -4 are usually brakes line, -6 and -8 for fuel and fluids, -10 and -12 usually for coolant and oil coolers. I run -8 for my trans/diff coolers and -12 for my oil cooler.

Dave

alan33

Dave:

I guessed it was the size from looking in other catalogs but did not know what size the numbers indicated, I appreciate the sizing overview of the AN numbers, -8 it is. I called HRP and a catalog is on the way.

If I can locate a temperature switch, what temp. do you think is good to switch on the pumps? Where and how do you mount the switch to the transmission and differential to give the correct feedback? I guess the other alternative is to manually turn the systems on and off.

I'll talk to fluidair when I figure out the correct size and threads and angles of the fittings.

-Alan

MikeFleischer

All,

I got the kits from DRM yesterday and ahad a chance to go over them this morning. It looks like the most difficult part of the kits wil be mounting the pumps and the radiators. The second hardest will be running the wiring. Third will be refilling the fluids. The kits are pretty close to the same with slight mods to the fittings for the diff and tranny. They look to be really solid items and could take a bit to install without a lift. I will let you know how the install goes when I get some time to do it. Also I will take pics of the procedure and try to post them for future generations.

Total cost for the two kits was $1208 with shipping. Any thoughts on what tranny oil and diff oil I should run? What weights? Any additives?

Mike

davidfarmer

I could not get the GM temp switches to work, so I just put toggles on mine.

As for fluids, I run Mobil 1 ATF in the trans with an additive from Pro Blend (Jegs has it, I run an entire bottle with the cooler). Believe it or not, the Tremec tech (they build the T56) suggested it. I run Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube in the diff with GM additive. I don't mind other synthetics, but Mobil 1 is easy to find at any Autozone.

For the diff, I used FluidAir's 10M20F80MXS adapter to go from the 20mm thread to a -10. I think I picked up the adapter to go from there from Earls (http://www.anplumbing.com/).

Maybe I should put my own kit together. Looks like I could sell if for half of the competing units!

Dave

davidfarmer

What the heck! If anyone in the NC area wants to be the test car (I can mock everything up on my convertibel) I will set you up with a cooler set for around $600. Then I could pass all of the information on to you guys (for a price!)

Dave
madman@vnet.net

rbeckham

Alan - I am getting a little suspicious of Fichtner's price "deals." If you check the GM Goodwrench web site - http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/ - and get to the racing parts section, you will see that the "Cooler, Transmission Oil" - part #12480082 costs $129.54 and the "Switch, Thermal" for this piece - part # 12480087 - lists for $55.88. The "Pump, Transmission Oil Cooler" - part # 12480081 lists for $430.36, and the "Package, Hardware" - part # 12480088 - to install the above is $17.42 which makes the entire parts total $633.20.

This is not the first instance where I have seen Fichtner's quoted "list" prices much higher than GM's. Buyer beware!




[Modified by rbeckham, 9:16 PM 10/25/2001]

h rocks

Dave, if I had a C5, I'd be *all over* that generous offer!!

alan33

Dave:

You ought to put the kits together. I visit NC frequently, little town near Ashville got family there, where is Albemarle. $600 would be a good deal. Those AN fittings are expensive if you need any curved units. The straight ones aren't as bad. I am looking for a temp sensor switch from an air cooled engine, maybe even a motorcycle to switch the pumps on, I'm thinking 180 degrees. Like you did , the switches will be the backup plan and probably installed in parallel anyway.

Thanks for the adapter # for the diff. You have just about speced out the entire system. When I get this done, I owe you a beer or three at least.

Mike:

Please do post the pictures and document the experience.

rbeckham:

You are right, some of their prices are great and some not. Gotta shop this stuff hard.

Take Care,

Alan

MJM

I'm game

I definitely need coolers for my Z06 (3 track events already, many more in the future)

I'm in Va Beach, not exactly NC but not too far either.

Let me know if you are serious about putting the kits together and how much work and cutting is involved for the install

Matt

team-zr1

I did one of the first installs of the G.M Performance Parts trannie cooler ( which BTW, its install document [which is lousy and incorrect] states this can void the car's warranty :)
at a price of $850, so anyone stating higher then that is screwing ya.

Frankly, don't waste your money, it's junk ( I lost the pump twice now with little "On time" due to no filiter from drain side of trannie, thus metal shavings from trannie gets sucked into pump and the Weldon pump ceases to move oil) the oil ines are too small, esp with the cooler being all the way in the front and the round trip of lines is over 20 feet. small A/N fittings are 90 degree causing even more resistance to oil flow and more strain on pump.
The 190 degree thermal switch as per install document is on a cooling fin of MN6 case, thus fluid in trannie is much hotter.

Review my content and install images on team forum at :

http://teamzr1.com/cgi-bin/ultimateb...&f=10&t=000022

I intent to rip out the G.M design this winter, they had the pump mounted high and thus created a gravity issue on both sides of the pump and since there is no fluid level control, as happened to me in a ORR, fluid was dumping faster into the MN6 then the pump was pushing fluid from the trannie drain side, thus once pump got wacko, trannie ended up way overfilled.

What happens is due to foaming of fluid, pump gets airpocket, ceases to be able to push the fluid out of MN6 but all the oil in front of the pump gets pushed into the MN6.

You could go to Earl's Performance and get a much better pump and all the other parts for a much better designed cooler for less money.

As you see in my images, behind the front side of fender well, there is free space. I intent to run a ram air hose from that area to cooler also there and force cool the cooling radiator.

Make sure you can turn the power off the pump relay, else it will continue to run when engine is off. In first run a two run ORR, trannie was so hot the pump continued to run the battery down for it ran for 40 minutes after car was turned off for once car is not moving, forced air cooling is zero so oil cannot cool down.

Also a MUST, install a oil filter from drain plug side of MN6 to prevent trannie ( or rear end) metal shaving jamming up pumps.

davidfarmer

I have run both the GM coolers on trans a diff for a full year of Pro Racing (Speedvision GT) and have not had a failure yet. I debris is getting into the pumps, it is not the pumps fault.

The pricing is going to be a little higher than I thought, and I haven't exactly figured out where to mount the pieces yet. But here goes:

Dual cooler with fan $229
pump 2 x 150= $300
misc AN fittings approx $200
20' of non-SS line $70

$800 should get the parts together, including the metric and pipe adapters need, for the kit. On my race car, I would cut out the rear cargo "hole" and mount them there, but on a street car, I'm not sure. You need an 11" x 8" x 6" location for the cooler. Any ideas?

Dave

squarefour

Hey, newby here, first post.

FWIW:
I was fully set to have my dealer install trans/diff coolers in my C5, but a combo of things forced me to drop it.

Service rep not returning calls.
$4000.00 installed.:eek:
Reports of poor quality and problems with GM kit.
Heard warranty was nixed.

Anyway, after much research, I was going to put the GM units behind
the fog light/grill area (removing the black plastic, of course). No fan
needed, but long hose runs. Couldn't find ANYWHERE else without
removing the mufflers. DRM rec'd NOT putting them in front of radiator.
Also, it appealed to me to use those fake grill slots for something:)

I hope somebody comes up with something reasonable, I'll be a customer.

Dion