C5 Z06 SCCA Super Stock Alignment
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C5 Z06 SCCA Super Stock Alignment
I did a lot of searching and never quite found a good baseline alignment. My initial thoughts are to align it something like this:
Front:
-1.5 camber
7 or more caster (max maybe?)
slight toe-out, about 1/16" total toe-out?
Rear:
-1 camber
1/16" to 1/8" total rear toe-in
One big question is the ride height, where do you all set it?
The car will be stock on street tires for the first several events until I'll move onto V710s. Not sure what shocks I will run as it will just be a regional car (very open to suggestions such as 04 shocks?) or front sway bar. Thanks in advance for any help.
Front:
-1.5 camber
7 or more caster (max maybe?)
slight toe-out, about 1/16" total toe-out?
Rear:
-1 camber
1/16" to 1/8" total rear toe-in
One big question is the ride height, where do you all set it?
The car will be stock on street tires for the first several events until I'll move onto V710s. Not sure what shocks I will run as it will just be a regional car (very open to suggestions such as 04 shocks?) or front sway bar. Thanks in advance for any help.
#2
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You'll need more negative camber. Maximum but equal, whatever you can get to start with.
Ride height will be dropped as far as you're comfortable in the rear (two threads showing is OK) and then put the rake where you want it initially. Then adjust over time to make the car handle the way you want it to. It will take driving time for the car to settle on the front bushings to give you the true rake BTW. Changing ride height via the rake wil change the alignment and potentially the corner weights of the car.
Some like positive rake, some like no rake, some like negative rake for autox. I'd suggest starting with no rake and making adjustments after you're comfortable that you know the handling of the car. I hear that Pheniox starts their autox cars out with no rake.
Note: If you are going to drive this car on the road both a neutral rake and a negative rake can be unstable at high speeds. FWIW
Ride height will be dropped as far as you're comfortable in the rear (two threads showing is OK) and then put the rake where you want it initially. Then adjust over time to make the car handle the way you want it to. It will take driving time for the car to settle on the front bushings to give you the true rake BTW. Changing ride height via the rake wil change the alignment and potentially the corner weights of the car.
Some like positive rake, some like no rake, some like negative rake for autox. I'd suggest starting with no rake and making adjustments after you're comfortable that you know the handling of the car. I hear that Pheniox starts their autox cars out with no rake.
Note: If you are going to drive this car on the road both a neutral rake and a negative rake can be unstable at high speeds. FWIW
Last edited by TedDBere; 02-12-2007 at 08:24 AM.
#3
Melting Slicks
Ted is right, running the 710's you will need all the camber you can get.
I generally set the front toe to zero for the street and mark the tie rods so I can wind in about a half to 3/4's of a turn of toe out per side at the event and then take it out for the street.
If you are going with stock shocks don't lower the back end too much, they will bottom under hard cornering/acceleration and make corner exit screwy...
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Melting Slicks
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I was figuring it couldn't be lowered much, I was thinking 1/2" all around as a baseline to get more static negative camber in the front.
Any other opinions or info?
Any other opinions or info?
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The stock Z06's don't handle well when lowered much past 1/2" to 3/4", and make sure you keep some rake towards the front or it will push like crazy. You will want to keep as much forward bite on the car as possible. I've only found one track that likes the car lowered alot, and that is Miller because it's as flat as a pool-table!
I tried Bilstein Sports in place of the stockers on my '02, and went back to the stock ones for now. The Bilstein's were just a touch too harsh for the tracks I run on. I'll be going to Pfadt's here soon so I can dial in the car better....
Get all the neg. camber you can (mine is about -2.2 front and -1.2 in the rear), then get max. caster, then I set my front at 1/16 total toe out in front, and 1/8 toe in in the rear, and with the V710's, I get great tire wear across the tread. HTH.....
Last edited by Too Tall Bob; 02-12-2007 at 11:39 AM.
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Exactly. My track days in a car ended when I sold the Miata. I track a bike now instead. The Z is #1 an autocross car and #2 a weekend car. Don't much care about the track setup at this point.
Whats the average max negative camber you can get a stock height in the front? I was under the impression it was -1.5.
Whats the average max negative camber you can get a stock height in the front? I was under the impression it was -1.5.
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You can get -2.2 on the front without any mods...that's what I was able to get.
Hey!...maybe we can swing him over to the "Dark side".
#11
Safety Car
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I've been there, done that with the track (thousands of laps). I love it but I just wanted to switch to a motorcycle for something different and keep autocrossing with the Z. I'll probably end up back on the track eventually with a car, but its not in the immediate future.
#13
Ted's pretty much summed it up.
Where we settled, running the Z06 in SS on stock shocks:
-2.0 front, zero toe (some like some toe out, I ended up going back to zero), front ride height about 3/4 of the full downward adjustment (YMMV, corner weighting is going to come into play, this is a rough estimate).
-1.5 rear, start with at least 1/4 toe in, you'll probably end up running more. Ride height is right at max lowering, this should give you a very slight rake (approx. 1/4").
You can get more camber, but we felt that it wasn't neccessary and that there might be a give up on braking. I think the best advice is to get the baseline set and then do any adjustments at events with just the rear ride height and toe. Slight ride height changes in the rear, along with toe, can make big differences in the car's balance. Just get that front end to stick as well as possible!
Mike Wood
Where we settled, running the Z06 in SS on stock shocks:
-2.0 front, zero toe (some like some toe out, I ended up going back to zero), front ride height about 3/4 of the full downward adjustment (YMMV, corner weighting is going to come into play, this is a rough estimate).
-1.5 rear, start with at least 1/4 toe in, you'll probably end up running more. Ride height is right at max lowering, this should give you a very slight rake (approx. 1/4").
You can get more camber, but we felt that it wasn't neccessary and that there might be a give up on braking. I think the best advice is to get the baseline set and then do any adjustments at events with just the rear ride height and toe. Slight ride height changes in the rear, along with toe, can make big differences in the car's balance. Just get that front end to stick as well as possible!
Mike Wood
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Ted's pretty much summed it up.
Where we settled, running the Z06 in SS on stock shocks:
-2.0 front, zero toe (some like some toe out, I ended up going back to zero), front ride height about 3/4 of the full downward adjustment (YMMV, corner weighting is going to come into play, this is a rough estimate).
-1.5 rear, start with at least 1/4 toe in, you'll probably end up running more. Ride height is right at max lowering, this should give you a very slight rake (approx. 1/4").
You can get more camber, but we felt that it wasn't neccessary and that there might be a give up on braking. I think the best advice is to get the baseline set and then do any adjustments at events with just the rear ride height and toe. Slight ride height changes in the rear, along with toe, can make big differences in the car's balance. Just get that front end to stick as well as possible!
Mike Wood
Where we settled, running the Z06 in SS on stock shocks:
-2.0 front, zero toe (some like some toe out, I ended up going back to zero), front ride height about 3/4 of the full downward adjustment (YMMV, corner weighting is going to come into play, this is a rough estimate).
-1.5 rear, start with at least 1/4 toe in, you'll probably end up running more. Ride height is right at max lowering, this should give you a very slight rake (approx. 1/4").
You can get more camber, but we felt that it wasn't neccessary and that there might be a give up on braking. I think the best advice is to get the baseline set and then do any adjustments at events with just the rear ride height and toe. Slight ride height changes in the rear, along with toe, can make big differences in the car's balance. Just get that front end to stick as well as possible!
Mike Wood
#15
The front doesn't end up being that low, I don't have the measurements, but after experimenting with full drop in the front, we ended up going back up about 1/2-5/8" or so, which was (IIRC) right around 3/4 of maximum adjustment. Also, this was with stock, '02 shocks. Hitting the bumpstops wasn't an issue.
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Since I greatly suspect I will be changing to race tires within 6 months, I'm going to align at stock height using this:
Front:
Max negative camber up to -2
max caster
zero toe
Rear:
-0.5 negative camber less than front
1/8" total toe-in
I see you said 1/4" toe in. That's a lot, more than I've ever run on any car. Do you really run that much?
Front:
Max negative camber up to -2
max caster
zero toe
Rear:
-0.5 negative camber less than front
1/8" total toe-in
I see you said 1/4" toe in. That's a lot, more than I've ever run on any car. Do you really run that much?
#17
Drifting
Rake Measurement & Camber?
Where on the car are you taking your rake measurements?
I will be running 710s for autox but also drive the car daily on the EMTs. I currently have -0.8 F and -0.4 R camber per side. Is this too much of a compromise for good track performance?
This is on a C6.
TIA,
--Dan
I will be running 710s for autox but also drive the car daily on the EMTs. I currently have -0.8 F and -0.4 R camber per side. Is this too much of a compromise for good track performance?
This is on a C6.
TIA,
--Dan
#18
Safety Car
I measured from the jacking slots on the frame.
I'm running -1.1 F and -0.9 R and that's a compromise for the track... I'm on the Supercars for both right now. I will shortly have the Hardbar camber kit and then I'll probably put on a more aggressive alignment for the track and swap it out for the street. (C6)
I will be running 710s for autox but also drive the car daily on the EMTs. I currently have -0.8 F and -0.4 R camber per side. Is this too much of a compromise for good track performance?
#19
Keep in mind, the alignment I gave you is what we found worked well on my car, for the way I drive. But, I don't know any of the guys who were running Z06's last year at a National level who were far off those numbers...at least according to what was shared
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Understood. I'm going to chicken out and go with 1/8" total toe-in and hope that is enough especially since I am 1 mile above sea level. I'll post back with some opinions after I autox it this saturday on the new alignment.