Too Tall Bob

Here's what one of the instructors said regarding one of their "Beginner" students at Spring Mountain attending one of their 3 day courses:

"I had a student a couple years back who went through 6 sets
of pads in three days! (4 fronts and two rears) It was always the
left front brake pads that would almost be gone after 3 or 4 track
sessions. Found out later he was using the active handling the
whole time, and he would try and accelerate and
the car would be using the brakes to slow him down!"

Now, when do you determine when you are going fast enough to warrant better brake pads?...When it's too late?
It's obvious that even "beginner" drivers can melt brakes pretty quick too.
Just buy good pads and start off right! It won't be long before you will need good pads anyway. If it's dust you are worried about, then buy a second set.

Also, I found this statement posted in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS on the Tirerack website concerning brake pads for the Corvette Z06:

"NOTE: Ceramic pad material is recommended by the vehicle manufacturer and may have been supplied as Original Equipment. Replacing ceramic brake pads with pads of any other material may result in more brake dust or increased brake-related noise than originally installed pads."


Looking at this statement, it appears that the cars could have come with either pad, but most likely they came with ceramic pads.

sleeper02Z06

There is a lot to be said for being mature enough to drive to the equipment that is on the car. Brakes talk ALOT, people simply don't listen. If you cook pads and wad the car, it is YOUR fault. It's pretty easy to tell when you are starting to get pad fad and when you are starting to boil fluid. Both are easy to feel, and then you know it's time to dial it back. If this happens on a regular basis, and your lap times show your speed is up, then your driving warrants an upgrade in the parts area. If you are cooking your pads and still going slow, then re-evaluate the way you drive. If you cook pads, don't back off and wad the car, re-evaluate the way you drive. I've gone faster on Summit Point Main, Shenandoah and VIR with stock pads and Hawk HPS pads then many guys have gone with big brake kits. I've gone faster than Z06's in a 3700lb Camaro SS with small brakes. It's all in the way you drive, and the maturity to realize it's typically your fault the equipment fails.

Joe Gaudette

ajderzie

Most cars at spring mountain do not run through a set of brake pads each day or even each week. They teach you to drive fast and preserve your equiptment at the same time. If you are going to slam on your brakes before each turn you will be driving much slower by the end of the day. What is really impressive is if you can drive fast on street tires and stock brakes. You have to remember that you are not driving a 2000lb open wheel car that you can abuse in every corner.

Too Tall Bob

Remember, that quote above from Victor at Spring Mountain is from an email to me regarding just what we are discussing right here. There can be every form of driver from beginner to advanced who can be hard on equipment, and he sees just about every kind of driver.

What a person needs to remember is that if you are going to push your car or yourself to the limits, you need to have the right equipment from the beginning. Not only does your car need to be properly prepared, but your mind has to be ready to learn and accept new things....because they will certainly push you to the limits.

Does everyone go through a set of pads every day?...No, but it is possible. And yes, if you are the kind of driver who is hard on equipment and don't realize it, then something needs to change.

StArrow68

Sounds like the same thing is being said in two different ways, drive with your brain and not your ego. Having good equipment is a smart thing to consider after you get a little experience and know what the feedback from the system is telling you. I for one made an early decision that I'm happy with to try and stay stock since I know nothing about changing the equipment on cars, although I'm learning, some. Between seat time, car set up and minor upgrades, (see sig.) I've gotten pretty close to what my car classing suggests is decent around a track. And, I've done it with a stock brake system with PFC x pads, replacing Z06 pads mostly used for the first 2 years. That is 2 1/2 years on track so a mostly stock system will work, if you know what the limitations are and drive within them.
Randy

corvette-pilot

I spent 3 days at spring mountain and they use stock pads and didn't seem to have any issues. Then again, they run 15-20 minute lapping sessions so that could make a difference too.

Too Tall Bob

I also have taken the 3 day Level 1 course in their cars and had no issues with their pads. However, my lap times in that course were 1;55+ average on day 3, and I even ran a best of 1:53. When I first got my own Z06 to run at Spring Mtn, I was running 1:54's consistently on the first day, but have since been down to a 1:49+. The difference between the 1:55 and the 1:49 is night and day on brake systems. I can run all day long at 1:55 and never have brake problems let alone burn them up, but the sub-1:50's are brutal on brakes, because my braking zones are now MUCH deeper and shorter than before.

varkwso

All 01-04 ZO6s came with ZO6 specific semi-metallic stock. 04 ZO6s had a different formula than the rest. I have run a bunch of stock ZO6 pads on my car since I am getting them free from folks who are putting on ceramics and I take their takeoffs. They are an excellent pad when combined with any DOT legal tire IMHO and I have run a bunch of DEs on them.

They do fade - but I can do that to most any pad when I put my mind to it! Keeping brake fluid fresh seems to help the most there.

I have run out of my supply of ZO6 takeoffs and will have to buy some more replacements soon. I have used HP+ and Carbotechs also but may just buy some more stock pads and spend the difference on some DRM ducts...

rudyarias

I found that at Road America, the stock Z06 pads are toast after two laps. During the NASA HPDE in April of 2005, several Z06s using the stock pads were in trouble after a few laps. I use the Carbotech XP10 (in the fronts) and XP8 (for the rears) for RA. Tracks like Road America and Carolina Motorsports Park are not the ones I would recommend using the stock Z06 pad regardless of experience.

varkwso

I am running stock ZO6 pads there this weekend - my tires expire before my pads at CMP normally. I do experience some fade at times so I adjust to compensate. Every car has some limits - once a ZO6 has killer brakes and sticky tires you are going to find out drivetrain heat rejection is a real problem....

rudyarias

I have both tranny and diff coolers as well as the oil coolers, 172º thermostats and DRM brake cooling ducts in both of my Z06s. The heat issue has been nonexistent since having them installed from the get go. With me its always been an issue with the stock Z06 pads. Brake fade is an issue that I cannot tolerate as I left foot brake (a common technique in Autocross and Formula 1). I usually run the "tighter" open wheel line vs the one most follow on a track (which requires you to be smoother). Until you drive tracks like Road America or an "short" oval like Martinsville (even driving at a conservative pace), you will understand why the stock Z06 pads do not cut the mustard. As for killer brakes, I already have my order in for the front and rear C6 Z06 calipers/rotors to install on both of my C5 Z06s :-)

ajderzie

So back to the original question....
I think the truth lies in your driving style. For certain people, stock pads are unacceptable and for others they are great, and safe. The beauty of the trackday is that if you find that your brakes are fading bad after 15 min of all out driving, you can take a break! Relax in the shade, have a bite to eat, become a spectator, release a little air (from the tires), then take it out for a spin on the track again. Drop your pace a little and try to run a perfect line. You may actually find yourself driving faster. Its all about fun. The most important piece of safety equiptment is the driver, not the brakes. Don't get me wrong, I would love to run a full track set up including R-compound tires and carbotechs but living in manhattan doesn't make storing or transporting any of that stuff too easy. I still have a blast with my setup and >450 rwhp

rudyarias

The true fact that it is a track day not a competition event so driving at your own pace will determine whether or not you need to upgrade your brake pads. You will get faster as you get smoother but at the same time, you're out there to hone in your driving skills, not to "win".

ScottZ

Did you really need to point out that you kicked my Z06 a$$ in that Camaro He speaks the truth though.

I used stock pads the first 2 years of de's (this is my first year with a race pad). If you are paying attention at all, it's easy to recognize when they are fading and you simply have to back off a little.

96CollectorSport

I've had one customer that has gotten great life out of the stock Z06 pads at Road America, 4 to 5 2 day events out of stock pads, but his braking philosophy is "long and light" he has been out to Spring Mountian 5 or 6 times and that is how they tought him. We also did a braking comparison with a G-tech meter and he was braking at .71 g at peak braking I was using Wilwood pads and braking at 1.0 g. I was picking up 3 to4 car lengths in the braking areas, but I had the pads to do it. The stock pads can be used at the track but it takes restraint to keep yourself in the temp range. Hell you could drive the whole track without using any brakes but it's not the fastest way around the track.

TooManyIDs

There is a problem using information reported here because it's often from different tracks, certainly different driving styles, and different event lengths. Some tracks, and drivers, are hell on brakes. Doing an all day session, versus 30 minutes is another differentiator.

I had a '02 Z06 and put the C5 Z06 pads on my C6. I find them fine for a couple sessions (25 min each) at MSR (see sig). MSR doesn't have extreme speed on straights (about 105 mph) as I read about with other tracks, but it also doesn't have long straights to cool things off.

My braking style tends to be early, but gently.

Having said all that, I find them to be fine pads. I took 2 seconds off my lap time at MSR (with the C6) after switching to the Z06 pad (more confidence, better bite).

My problem has been caliper flex, but that's a different story. I assume you are also using racing brake fluid.

John Shiels

Fine the first day or two I used stock pads after that they will chunk and look like a jig saw puzzle with a million cracks. They are not meant for high temps period. All things equal car and driver the race pads like Wilwood H or PFC 01 are a world apart. If I knew how important brakes were when I started I would of had better caliper before the cam install.

LTC Z06

I don't know. After DRM airducts, DRM SS pistons, and high temp fluid I found them to be just fine for autobahn and ring. You can do better for just the track, but if you don't have time to change pads these work just fine.

sleeper02Z06

I wouldn't say kicked butt, I did have to drive pretty darn hard to hold you and Ralph ( Silver Z06 ) off! Those were good times, man I miss that SS sometimes!

What pad are you running now?

Allthrottleandsomebottle

I will have a good write up after we get home on our CMP Z06 pad/stock & NAPA rotor use and ATE super blue use..........I was getting both cars to 120+ in the straights @ 100+ at the kink so I USED THE BRAKES.
We had NO FADE and solid pedal on both days w/o bleeding..........and I let my instructor drive both of them WOT for a 30 minute session...........he was also impressed and I am told ......whats that, oh yeah CMP is HARD on brakes