AJC5

I was not able to post a resopnse to a topic that received a number of
poor responses. I hope that the topic creator sees this and is still looking for information:

Hi there,

I am a little late in responding to this but I pulled this up in one of my searches for stereo stuff for my Corvette.

Maybe I can give a less biased and more intelligent response to this since there have not been any of those responses as of yet.

Pyramid is a low line company that creates car stereo equipment for the budget minded individual. Let me add that the top of the line Pyramid electronics are NOT crap; they are just not as good as the higher end equipment. You might also say that Rockford Fosgate and Precision Power may be also considered crap when you look down from the levels of McIntosh and other even higher end equipment.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Pyramid equipment is very inexpensive to
buy in comparison with other finer pieces of equipment. Lets face it, you get what you pay for and car stereo is no exception.

I have had Pyramid equipment along with Profile (another lower end company) and I can honestly say that my system sounded decent. I will not go on to say that it would have won any competitions or sounded as good as some very high-end systems, but just decent.

One thing to remember is that when you buy from these companies, it is imperative to buy their top of the line equipment as the lower models (such as the 2000 watt e.q.)
are poor.

Technical info:
I have taken the Pyramid amps apart and the stuff is decent actually. Here are some things that I noticed in comparing to the more expensive equipment. I noticed that
Pyramid lacked a little in the power supply stage power supply for the output stages. Power storage is usually an issue here, however most use decent, numerous MOSFET transistors for this section. This is one reason that Pyramid and other similar priced equipment don’t like to drive any lower than a 2-Ohm load. Power output is usually somewhat exaggerated, and usually references the amp driving a load at a 1KHz tone-burst rather than full bandwidth (usually 20-20,000 Hz) or the amp driving the load at this power level but with distortion. This makes the amp look good on paper with a higher than actual rating. The output section is a little lacking with the number of output devices, but deliver decent power into their 2-4 ohm rating; probably not what is advertised, but decent. Signal to noise was good, distortion was fairly low, and bandwidth was decent for an inexpensive set-up. The amps are fairly clean as long as you don’t run them into distortion. These amps can run decent contrary to unsubstantiated claims made here. My 2 Pyramid 10s in a 3 chamber bandpass enclosure with the Profile amp were known to shake convenience store windows, and smack you in the back of the head, decently.
Was my set-up the best, or competition grade? Nope, and I didn’t expect it to be considering I paid $350 for amp and 2 10” subs.

Well, there you have it. In summary:

1. Lower line stereo equipment Pyramid and the like, can be decent if set-up properly.
2. You get what you pay for.
3. Most people that post about stuff in a forum and give no explanation to their statements ALWAYS know nothing about what they are talking about.

Kale

One of the BIGGEST problems with comparing car audio equipment is the lack of a "standard."

If cars were measured the same, you'd see a c5
rated 0-60 at 4.7 and a civic rated at 3.5

Why is hte civic faster "to 60 time?" because they started measuring at 40mph... it's kind of a raw metaphor, but it's close on..


I imagine Pyramids are rated at MAX wattage at 14.4 volts or so. Am I wrong?

If these specs are accurate, this is a killer amp: http://www.millionbuy.com/pyrpb1080.html

4x350 max. So conservatively, 100x4. 100x4 for $145 is really a killer deal, especially if the specs are accurate.


Here's another supposedly nice one: http://www.millionbuy.com/pyrpb545x.html

But I'd be shocked if this isn't a case of "Heres the distortion we recorded with the amp tturned off" kind of thing.

It'd almost be worth the $85 to see what it could really do.

TheWacoKid

Exactly...I have a Profile 600sx and it sounds pretty decent when set up correctly.

JoeyG

Well, I started out along time ago with three Pyramid amps, running 4 6by9's and 2 12" Super Blues. I must say that although, I wouldn't win any perfect sq events, it was damn loud and in the winter the Amps provided enough heat (each running 2 ohm mono) for the cosiest backroad beer parties. :yesnod: :D

92TripleBlack

Its crap. There are plenty of inexpensive alternatives to pyramid that make much better sense. Used, leftovers, refurbished, ebay, etc. Pyramid lies about its ratings, has tons of engine whine, and is constructed in the cheapest fashion possible. Even the bose system is better. I saw a pyramid in dash eq rated 2000w. HMMM. 1/2 din in size, 1/4 lbs in weight, and 2000w, all for $19.95 with eq features. Found out they rated it by plugging it in the wall and rating the power output of it frying. Don't walk, run. If you need a cheap amp, ask. Just don't get a pyramid. :rolleyes:

AJC5

Please elaborate. Do you have any technical knowledge whatsoever or are you talking out of your butt?


Yes, and one of them is Profile. I chose that over Pyramid. If you read my post better you would have seen that. Profile utilizes a better power supply and output stage.


As do many other stereo equipment companies. Most of it is not a lie. I am sure that the unit in question may put out 2000 watts. It just did so at a 1KHz toneburst for one millisecond
with probably 30% distortion.


Really? I had none, if you had some or a “ton” like you indicate
It sounds like user error.

“ton of engine noise” can you please get any more non-technical?

Hmmm…Pyramid uses the exact same materials for their enclosures as most everyone else in the industry. Their internal components are also standard off-the-shelf pieces and their methods are not unusual for car stereo equipment. Sorry, your statement is invalid.


I think we have been over this one. If you expected that unit to perform, I now understand why you seem to have a complete lack of understanding for what we are discussing.


Better than the in-dash e.q. Yes, I can agree with that. Better than their top of the line stuff..no way!

Since you didn’t read my post properly, I will reprint from the original:

“One thing to remember is that when you buy from these companies, it is imperative to buy their top of the line equipment as the lower models (such as the 2000 watt e.q.)
are poor.”

Thanks for proving my #3 in my first post.
3. Most people that post about stuff in a forum and give no explanation to their statements ALWAYS know nothing about what they are talking about.
:smash:

AJC5

I agree, I wish there was just one standard to rate to, well there kind-of
is, but companies tack on additional to this, like the 1KHz toneburst, or full bandwidth, at sometimes different distortion levels. The real problems lies in that the entire testing method is not always included in their advertised specs.

leadfoot4

AJC5, I agree with your post 100%, however you are always going to deal with people who have to justify the $2K-$5K (or more) that they just spent on a car stereo.
Everybody's ears have a different level of sensitivity, and that's why there's so much sound equipment out there... to try and provide something for everybody. You can get to a point, however, where it becomes nothing more than academic on how much you spent, as your ears WON'T be able to tell the difference. So then you have to use electronic sensing equipment to tell the difference, and then justify your expenditure based on a strip chart graph's data points.
If that's what makes you happy, great! It's a good feeling to know we live in a country that allows us to persue these pleasures, as silly as they might be!

Conquer

:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

Pyramid = Crap, junk, garbage etc...

92TripleBlack

3 Years of installing professionally, electrical engineer father(foremost authority on Nuclear hardening in the US), electrical engineer and amateur high end home amp and speaker builder best friend (Masters in EE from Stanford and works for Siemens Automotive in Germany). With my knowledge and there's combined, I think I'm speaking out of the correct side.
I told you how they rated it. It was a burst for one millisecond as it exploded from being powered by 110 volts. That was not an analogy. I don't know any quality companies that lie about their ratings. They do one of two things, either rate their stuff using continuous or peak power and they all state what the distortion level is at the time. Though some may be shady by using peak ratings showing a 25 watt continuous amp as 75 watt(because they rated it using peak #s), noone advertises their amps as 2000w when they are at best 10w.
From installing full time professionally at one of the top rated shops on the east coast, I can tell you:
1 The pyramid amps I have installed have had more dirty whine than any of the other 25+/- brands and hundreds of models of amps I have installed with the exception of a couple of kracos.
2 Its not user error
3 Engine noise is the number one problem for a corvette owner due to the lack of good grounds so this type of junk is going to be a real problem for most owners.
Saying that the case is made of stamped metal and they use the same resistors that every electronic devise uses does not make it equal. Most quality amps use good milled heat sinks and heavier gauge metal for the cases that is strong enough that you can't flex it with your hands. Heck, most of them you could drive over with no ill effects.
As for the electronics, using quality boards, capacitors, designs, shielding, etc. are the mark of a good amp. Pyramid has more in common with the circuits in a battery operated robot from Radioshack than a good quality amp. As to their construction methods not being unusual, they are unless you consider noname knockoffs the typical piece. Have you even looked at a good entry level amp like a JVC, Pioneer, or even an MEI?
If you think I expected this to perform, you must live on Mars. I just pointed out that this is the typical product and promotion you can expect from the company. It goes to great lengths to show others what they should expect and gives them insight into their ethics and standards.
Top of the line is an oxymoron when speaking about Pyramid. Yes, I hate the BOSE and think its crap. But it is still better than the Pyramid. Vette owners are interested in upgrading, not downgrading. They are also willing to spend more than $25 on an amp considering the BOSE was a $1500 option new in the 80s. However, bang for the buck, at a $1500 cost for the BOSE, the pyramid would be close.
I'm tired of explaining who I am and what I know. Most people know me from posting for a few years hear on a regular basis what my credentials are and if I'm talking out my @3$$ or not. Sorry I don't justify every opinion I have commented on. I just thought this one didn't even deserve it but you seem to think it does. BTW, are you an engineer for Pyramid or just an owner of their products that's just bitter, questioning your judgement, and trying to justify your poor choice of products through the comiseration of your peers?

This is a board for getting opinions about products. Most people here don't speak out about a subject unless they are qualified. You don't find me offering up my opinion on cranks or fuel injectors as I don't know them intimately though I have some good working knowledge and cursory experience. If you don't like my opinions, that's fine. If you have others that differ and you want to state them that's fine. But attacking a group of people who have some modicum of experience and ridiculing their opinions is not very productive for the layman board reader. :rolleyes: :nopity

As for setting up a good system, I frequently post $500 complete setups from head unit to speakers included that people can put in their cars. The first question I always ask to posters is what is your budget. I have also recommended systems for as low as $250 complete. You don't need a $25,000 setup to sound good. A little insight and help can get you what you need and well within your individual budget.


[Modified by 92TripleBlack, 10:45 AM 10/29/2002]

AJC5

Conquer= Point #3: Person with an opinion and nothing to back it up, that knows nothing about the topic at hand. If you want to add to this thread please make a statement with evidence.


I am getting a little tired of arguing but I see that you insist on attacking my posts so I will add.

quote:

Please elaborate. Do you have any technical knowledge whatsoever or are you talking out of your butt?


This does not impress me. Mechanics install car parts all the time and have many more years of experience, but only have a clue to how the less complicated parts work, let alone how to engineer these parts.


Wrong, wrong, and wrong

1. As an engineer, I work where there are quite a few engineers with different disciplines and quite a few of them indicate that they never played with audio amplification and really don’t
know that much about it. For instance an RF engineer.

2.If either your father or your friend was versed in this field of electronics which they may be (probably not your father by your description) they should be the ones making comments, not you. Did you consult with them on this. I don’t think so. Did you set up test equipment to check distortion, power output, frequency response, slew rate, damping factor, rise time to new a few? No, I don’t think that you did. I did when I worked for a stereo electronics sales and service company. Did you even listen to the higher end stuff from any of the less popular brands. I don’t think so. What you probably did is buy your system, which is nice by the way, and now to justify your purchase and the price that you paid, you put down all of the other brands without listening or electrically testing them. To me you are not speaking from the correct side. I still see no supporting evidence that the lower lines of stereo equipment do not perform to the satisfaction of the user with regard to cost. NOT ONE VALID ARGUMENT


Pyramid lies about its ratings
As do many other stereo equipment companies. Most of it is not a lie. I am sure that the unit in question may put out 2000 watts. It just did so at a 1KHz toneburst for one millisecond
with probably 30% distortion.

I have never heard of powering a 14V unit with 110V. I think you are lying. The unit would not even be able to turn on. The power supply components are not capable of supporting this much voltage and would instantly fry and short upon connection quicker than your millisecond toneburst.

You are full of B.S.


has tons of engine whine
Really? I had none, if you had some or a “ton” like you indicate
It sounds like user error.
“ton of engine noise” can you please get any more non-technical?


From installing full time professionally at one of the top rated shops on the east coast, I can tell you:
1 The pyramid amps I have installed have had more dirty whine than any of the other 25+/- brands and hundreds of models of amps I have installed with the exception of a couple of kracos.
2 Its not user error
3 Engine noise is the number one problem for a corvette owner due to the lack of good grounds so this type of junk is going to be a real problem for most owners.
quote:

Hmmm…Pyramid uses the exact same materials for their enclosures as most everyone else in the industry. Their internal components are also standard off-the-shelf pieces and their methods are not unusual for car stereo equipment. Sorry, your statement is invalid.


You are still thinking about that E.Q. aren’t you. Somebody posted a link above. Go to it and check it out before you make any more false statements. You are wrong on the case, PCB, and the components.

Does anybody have a top end Pyramid amp and a digital camera to show this guy? Hey really needs to be educated. I have seen many amps and the only thing that really stuck out as being different is the way that they
set up the circuit board layout and the basic shape of the enclosure.

I saw a pyramid in dash eq rated 2000w. HMMM. 1/2 din in size, 1/4 lbs in weight, and 2000w, all for $19.95 with eq features. Found out they rated it by plugging it in the wall and rating the power output of it frying.
I think we have been over this one. If you expected that unit to perform, I now understand why you seem to have a complete lack of understanding for what we are discussing.


Oh brother, cry me a river. That still doesn't mean that they are crap.

I am not even going to argue this one, if you don't know better.

Please do. You are making yourself look foolish, and I am tired of responding to your dribble.


No, I am not, otherwise I would be laughing harder at you than I am now.


After having my Pyramid amps for 4 years (selling my system to go to college and having my superblue 10s since 1997/98 (abusing them considerably) I can honestly say I am very satisfied at $53 each!


You do live on Mars!!
Please; this forum is full of people, such as yourself, that like to give their opinion about things that they think that they know, but know nothing about. That is why I still haven’t received any solid evidence to your claims and my original post. Duhh!

And please don’t. A sound system can’t leave you stranded on the road.

I agree, funny that you should say that since you have been doing that since the beginning of this thread and you did the same on the thread I responded to!

AJC5

Exactly
I have been into stereo equipment (home and car) for over 12 years now.
I had my first home system before I could drive. It was a Technics receiver with Fisher speakers LOL. It was o.k. I realized that it wasn't that great but I couldn't afford more. I then went right to Harman/Kardon and higher end speakers (EPI) This sounded much better even though not top of the line like Krell, McIntosh, ADS so on, but I didn't want to spend a whole lot.
My home system is still running some H/K components with Carver amplification. On the car side of things, I started with the Pyramid equipment, and now have the Hott set-up, Profile, and still have those Pyramid speakers which take the abuse well, and still sound good with a Fs of 25 Hz. I know that there is better but I want to spend my money on performance stuff for the car now. By the way the Profile is the 1200 model which is overrated at 1200 watts. It probably is closer to 800 peak into 2 ohms. Disbelieving the power output I called Profile and one of their engineers admitted that it is more like 225 per channel into 4 ohms even though it has a 300 wpc rating @ 4 ohms. Although he did state that this was running full bandwidth. Curious as to how clean it sounded I hooked up a battery w/charger inside and ran my home speakers, which were a 4 ohm load. It sounded decent, not as clean as my home stuff, but I was going to just use it for driving subs anyway.

But, for $225, I was pleased, especially since in the car it would boom even more when it had the full 14 V.

I now build all my speaker systems for home and car.
I have played with those Pyramids in bandpass, isobaric, vented just to
play. I really like trying different designs.

Kale

Careful AJC5, that's starting to sound like you're trying to kindle a flame war :hat

AJC5

Nah...not trying to kindle anything, but at least he had one decent thing to say...Look at e-bay


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1393878429

This is actually better than my old one. I am sure it is overrated, but look at the price..LOL

Kale

If I had the spare cash, I'd buy that and see what I could test from it. See how hot it gets, what it really makes, etc. For $125 it can't be THAT bad.

I do trust what 92TB says, though. He has proven to be knowledgeable on car audio, here. As I'm sure many would say.




[Modified by Kale, 11:28 AM 10/29/2002]

92TripleBlack

Looking at the Ebay item, knock a zero off the power ratings and you'd be in the ball park. Maybe they are using a system that is 10x more sensitive than the rest of the industry for rating their stuff and then putting the details in the fine print of the manual to stay out of jail. As for home stuff, carver, h&k, good stuff. I use Denon, some higher level Sony, Infinity, and Focal stuff in my home setup. Not the best but it does the job. I like to spend a good amount on the car setup as I listen to that 2 hours a day where as the home stuff I use its audio potential usually only when I'm playing movies for home theatre, works out to 2-4 hours a week. The rest if the time, I don't need the good stuff for the history channel or a Ranger game.

Conquer

:lol: Here we go... I will humor myself with this one.

This forum is for people to freely express there opinions? Its just my opinion and my opinion only! By posting a thread you are allowing all forum members to freely express their opinions.

Heh, I could care less if you like the product... If thats what you like then good for you brotha! But you sound retarded :D

Pyramid is junk... :D

Like you said "you get what you pay for"... pay less get less right? I feel sorry for you if you cant figure that one out :nonod:

Oh, and as far as backing my statement... dont need to... Pyramid has already done a great job with that over the years! ;)

As far as your flame towards 92TripleBlack and his wealth of experience... sounds to me like your jealous!

:U Pyramid

JoeyG

Guys, this is kind of enlightening seeing the differences of opinion. Oh by the way Hot Setup is an Orion derivative/Cobalt line knock off. :cheers:

TheWacoKid

Hey! You forgot Hafler!:eek:
I agree...Carver rocks...I have one of their integrated amps(forget the model) rated at 100 watts rms, measured it, more like 220 watts! I love understated ratings.
I won't join in on the flame war here..... :nonod:

TheWacoKid

I had two Pyramid 10" Superblues, and they sounded great and handled all the power I could throw at them:D ...very tight bass(with .75 cu.ft. each).
The low end needs a little help in a box that small though.