Well, any ideas? I have yet to hear a C5 with correct staging. They all sound like they are coming from the floor w/ seperates in the door. Higher mounted tweeters help, but I would like to keep the tweet/ mid close to each other. So far, JoeyG's C5 is the best at a raised soundstage I have heard, and this includes a few cars on the IASCA/USAC curcuit. Any other suggestions?
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (M396 #00-011)
All I have to say is good luck. I have talked to the sound guru's in my area including Larry Triebel (former owner of the famed Auto Graphics) and according to them the C-5 design makes it near impossible to get great soundstage. He actually told me to go buy a civic :smash: if I wanted good soundstage!!!!
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (RDRH8R)
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All I have to say is good luck. I have talked to the sound guru's in my area including Larry Triebel (former owner of the famed Auto Graphics) and according to them the C-5 design makes it near impossible to get great soundstage. He actually told me to go buy a civic :smash: if I wanted good soundstage!!!!
Pretty funny, but I heard the same thing about the Civic..
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (The^Nomad)
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Aside from digital processing, delay times, etc. You would have to modify the dash to do it, I prefer to image digitally than hack up my dash.
Understandable to achieve left, right, center bias, but how will all the processors in the world raise the soundstage to dash level? Again, without major dash modifications, I really don't think it's possible, but I was looking for ideas that I had maybe overlooked.
Location: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (M396 #00-011)
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Understandable to achieve left, right, center bias, but how will all the processors in the world raise the soundstage to dash level? Again, without major dash modifications, I really don't think it's possible, but I was looking for ideas that I had maybe overlooked.
Delay's etc. will do wonders for raising the soundstage. You have to know what you are doing though. In fact, Sony has a new feature out in one of their HU’s that by the touch of a button will raise the soundstage from the doors to eye level. Pretty impressive, I’ve heard it, but it still isn’t enough to get me to buy Sony. Especially since it can be done other ways.
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (The^Nomad)
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Delay's etc. will do wonders for raising the soundstage. You have to know what you are doing though. In fact, Sony has a new feature out in one of their HU’s that by the touch of a button will raise the soundstage from the doors to eye level. Pretty impressive, I’ve heard it, but it still isn’t enough to get me to buy Sony. Especially since it can be done other ways.
Could you explain how a delay could do this? I would like to try on a car ...
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (The^Nomad)
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Delay's etc. will do wonders for raising the soundstage. You have to know what you are doing though. In fact, Sony has a new feature out in one of their HU’s that by the touch of a button will raise the soundstage from the doors to eye level. Pretty impressive, I’ve heard it, but it still isn’t enough to get me to buy Sony. Especially since it can be done other ways.
OK, I stand corrected, originally I was thinking time delay's only, and I still don't think time delay's alone will do it. What I hadn't thought of, and I think Sony incorperated into their units is phase shifting and speaker polarity switching to acomplish the job. These are things that I might try, but no, I won't buy the sony either. :smash:
For the most part, I didn't figure I would gain much from this post. With placing speakers in the door, or some kicks, the center console really screws things up in the vette. :mad Placing tweeters up high helps, but could smear depth and certain vocals. Adding a 2nd set of tweeters up high crossed over at high freq (16k and up) may even solve some of this smearing, but may be beyond the depth of MY system.
So far, the doors it is, but with as much angle towards the other seat as possible.
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (M396 #00-011)
Good Luck on your Project!!!
At least you arent doing something nuts like my local stereo shop was asked to do, they installed 12 pairs of tweeters in a single Expedition .. how stupid is that?
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (M396 #00-011)
This is how my guy did it. Sorry, no pics of the finished install but here is a picture of an enclosure for the mid and tweet, you can't really tell from the picture but the dirvers fire forward a little, up into the windshield. The result is a soundstage right above the dash. There is still some perception of lower frequncies coming from down below but overall this works and is not as instrusive as it may look. Much better than attempting to float the tweeters up high somewhere.
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (NewVetteLover)
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Delay's etc. will do wonders for raising the soundstage. You have to know what you are doing though. In fact, Sony has a new feature out in one of their HU’s that by the touch of a button will raise the soundstage from the doors to eye level. Pretty impressive, I’ve heard it, but it still isn’t enough to get me to buy Sony. Especially since it can be done other ways.
Could you explain how a delay could do this? I would like to try on a car ...
I was still wondering about the use of delays to raise the sound stage .. coudl you suggest products also ...
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (NewVetteLover)
That is where they are installed and it works fine. I'm waiting for the correct color carpet and grillcloth before I bother taking pictures of the final install.
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (buddha)
Delays are meant to match speaker levels to arrive at the listener at the exact same time so you have no problems with cancellation and centering your stage. It helps in giving you up front bass with rear mounted subs. Personally, not a big fan of time delay or much processing at all. Some things are simpler. Proper designed and installed systems will not need much. Processing does help in fixing problems that different cars have as all interiors are not the same. Nothing beats a properly setup system, you do not need much. Tuning of a system with time delay and 1/3 octave EQ should be left to serious competitors who know what they are doing. It is a science and art.
Now to proper staging in a vette. Very difficult as I have been toying with different ideas to set up my vette for competition. I like the speaker pods posted and would love to hear how they sound and perform as the with the pathlengh diference. There are three options I am exploring in no particular order.
First is building kick panels for the midrange firing toward the back of the headunit and then mounting the tweeters up in the A-pillars firing across the front windshield meeting in the middle. Many top notch sound quality cars are set up this way and it works very well. Problem is footwell room in the vette. Not possible with a stick as you will have to lose the dead pedal.
Second is firing the midrange straight up right in front of the seats angled toward the center of the top of the windhsield with the tweeters mounted just like above. This is almost like the pods posted. This has worked well in some cars but clearance with the seat will be a problem. Have to experiement.
Last option is running some Mini horns under the dash. Horns usually work well in most cars and there is room under vette dash's for horns, most the mini bodies. You could put a tweeter up high in the A-pillar again to bring up the stage even more and help out the top end with horns. Have a set of horns here, not a big fan, but gonna try it and see how the staging is.
Hope this helps some :D Just have to experiment to see what works. They are not the greatest cars as mentioned but it is all fun :D
Location: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (MHLY01)
Yep, a Corvette is a bitch to get good imaging from and like said above, time delays and even simple phase shifting are not recommended on all systems but when confronted with a problem like a Vette interior you sometimes have to use tricks like that to compensate for poopie acoustical potential. However, that’s half the fun right? :D
If you put your tweets on the A-pillars and mids on the floor you will need some time delays to keep the imaging from being split and uneven. With the limited mounting options in a Vette and especially if you plan to compete then processing will most likely come into the picture. However, having said that, let us know how the experimenting goes and if you happen upon any sweet spots we may have missed. It’s always good to hear from someone experimenting in a Vette, especially a C5. I’m sure others would be interested as well. :cheers:
Also, as said above, it isn’t recommended that the inexperienced try playing with time delays. It does take a lot of finesse to get right and should only be used when the sound environment warrants it, and then by someone who knows what they are doing. It really is better to keep things as simple as possible. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you could make a mess of things. :lol:
So basically, if you don’t compete in SQ competitions and you don’t have an anal-retentive audiophile ear then the extremes of processing really aren’t necessary. Just enjoy and....BASS ON!
Re: Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5???? (The^Nomad)
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So basically, if you don’t compete in SQ competitions and you don’t have an anal-retentive audiophile ear then the extremes of processing really aren’t necessary. Just enjoy and....BASS ON!
I see your point ... its just that most the the new Alpine HU's come with the time correction ... and their directions are easy ... so maybe starting with their directions ... and then playing with the other features would be wise for any newbies like myself ... but I think that any info is good info ... I have learn a few cool things in this thread ...
Correct Imaging and Staging in a C5????
