There was a recent thread about tuning and Fej suggested crossover points for a 3way front stage.
"I would start: Sub 80hz 18db slope / Midbass 80hz 18db - 250hz 18db / Midrange 250hz 18db - 4khz 12db / Tweeters 5khz 12db. Mess around from there bro."
I am currently running Dynaudio 3ways and sub.
Tweeter MD102 Recommended range 2200-30000 hz
Mid MD142 Recommended range 700-6000 hz
Midbass MD162 Recommended range 40-4000 hz
The sub is on a separate amp through a 3sixty.2 and the crossover points are adjustable via the 3sixty.2
The 3way front stage is through the 3sixty.2 and into a four channel amp.
The midbass (active) through ch. B with fully adjustable crossover points via the 3sixty.2.
The problem.
The mids and tweeters are through ch A and then through the passive Dynaudio crossovers (X362). With crossover points at 900hz/3500hz with 6db slope.
To go fully active would require another 2 channels of amplification plus another 3Sixty.2. Which require space and $$$.
I was thinking that if I modified the existing passive crossovers or replaced them with 2way crossovers that crossed at say 4500hz. Maybe something like this: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/2WayProZX/XO-1304
Perhaps that would allow me to get closer to Fej's recommendation of 4khz to 5khz crossover between the mids and tweets. Also I would not be locked in to the 900hz hipass for the mids.
I can hipass the mids (ch A) through the 3Sixty.2 with adj. crossover
Or maybe a custom crossover that lopasses at 4khz for the mids and hipasses at 5khz for the tweets.
you have different speakers with different requirements, different frequency response... Personally, I would cross over the dyns at:
800 hz @ 12 * 3khz @ 12
The recommendations I made are simply ball park places to start with when you have the ability to adjust them via an electronic crossover or other source (HU with built in, or a 360.2 etc). They are somewhat tailored to Radio's system because of the useable range of the tweets he has and the larger midrange and it's response.
I am a big fan of "active" set ups, especially for car audio as there are a lot of obstacles to overcome in the environment.
As for your personal set up, Dynaudio makes very solid crossovers using what I would have to believe to be superior components to the Erse crossover you linked. Dyn does a lot of R&D and sends out crossovers based on median driver response tests, and are designed to work acceptably in most car installations.
Without hearing your install, or seeing how the 3 way system is installed in your ride it would be difficult for me to say with any certainty that moving the crossover points would benefit your performance, especially when you do not currently have the ability to adjust each driver's high pass and low pass points so they work in conjunction.
My gut tells me that with such shallow slopes on the Dyn passives that you could clean the midrange up with more defined crossover points and better utilize the performance of all of the drivers in the system. Lowering the midbass low pass point would also create better impact in that frequency range. However, without lowering the midrange high pass point along with it you will create too large a hole in the playback.
Which Dyn 3 way set do you have, and if possible could you toss me a link to them? I would like to see their response charts as if I recall correctly the midrange in that set is a smallish dome that cannot be crossed very low.
Fej,
You are right, the mid is smallish (4") dome,recommended range 700-6000hz
I have the Esotec System 342 with x362 crossover
Here is a link to the mids MD142.
Go to technical specs, at the center of page, and it gives charts.
You can also get the info for the midbass (MW162) and tweets (MD102) under drivers at the top left of the page.
This is a nice set with gentle slopes at points that seem to maximize the tweeter performance.
In my opinion if you do not want to spend more money and want to stay with the passive components (either the 362 unit or something else) I would leave it alone and try and adjust gains and the crossover points of the midbass to improve performance. I would look no lower than 70hz for the high pass point on the midbass with as steep a slope as possible, and set a corresponding low pass for the sub with a steep slope as well.
The tweets offer a lot of flexibility with the low fs, which is nice.
If you decided to add another pair of channels and allow the internal sub amps crossover to handle the sub(s), and use the 360.2 (it is 3 way right?) to handle the front stage I would start with something like this:
Midbass: 75-80hz to 800hz @ 24db slope on both sides
Midrange: 800-900hz to 3.5k 24db high pass 12db low pass
Tweet: 4khz and up 12db
Sub: midbass high pass and down 24db slope
Kale aren't you somewhat familiar with this set? What did you like best when you were playing with the Dyn's?
Fej thanks,
Yes the 3Sixty.2 does have 6 channels of output.
To go fully active I would just have to add a two ch. amp,and not a second 3Sixty.2.
It would be nice if the existing Dyn Crossovers could be modified to eliminate the (900h@6db) hipass to the mids. Then I could adjust that crossover point with the 3Sixty.2.
Is there anyway to do this ?
I assume that currently if I set the hipass (on ch A ) to 900hz, I can still control the slope as long as it is steeper than 6db.
I think I'm pretty close to the settings you recommend. I will check to make sure.
Awhile back, I disconnected the mids and reconfigured the system as active 2-way for about a week.
It just seemed that something was missing, so I changed back to the current 3-way setup.To my ear it sounds much fuller with the 3-way.
Kale,
Can you tell me a little more about why the mid didn't fit the set ?
I think the mid just sounds different than the rest of the speakers. The tweeter and the midbass are very, very smooth and natural sounding. but I found the mid to be a bit on the bright side.
Thanks Kale,
I agree the mid is definetly on the bright side.
I ended up placing it in the lower door panel toward the front.
It is just above my ankle.
Basically as far away as possible,and that seemed to help.
Craig
Fej,
There is a problem with the six channels of output on the 3Sixty.2.
The last two channels are center and sub.
So I don't think they are left and right.
The sub channel can only be lopassed from 50 to 200 hz.
So even though there are six channels, I would say that those two are mono.
I have been unable to connect via BT to the 3Sixty (to check the crossover settings and slopes). After a few hours I checked the RockfordFogate Website, and there is a notice regarding a BT connectivity issue.
So I'll call them on Monday.
I was afraid of that when I scanned their manual. I was hoping that the center would allow 2 channels to run through it.
Car audio is all about compromise, and you certainly have a pretty solid setup that you are working with now. It really comes down to price vs performance, and how much more performance would you gain from the added investment of 2 more channels of amplification and additional/different crossovers. I cannot guarantee how much more performance you would gain, and you have to decide whether it would be worth the investment.
My current vette system is actually about to be downsized as I generally just autocross the car these days with about 1-2 days a month of "fun" street driving. I will be pulling my DCX-730 out and my Linear PS5 and running my system 2 way with a sub through the Eclipse 8053 deck that I have and my Genesis Profile 5 amp.
I may decide to part with some of my audio to help fund new towers for my home set up. I am trying to build the Zaph Revelator tower at some point in the near future. If I do you will see a post on here about it.
You might also want to check out diymobileaudio.com. Lot of info over there and usually a pretty busy classified section that you might be able to trade up from your 3sixty.2 to something fully 3 way capable.
Corvette Store
Passive/Active Crossover ???
Yes you can Kale, yes you can heh.
