New Install..... NEED HELP

[CraigE]

I just had a new system installed in my 2007.

Stock Bose/nav HU... used line level output.
Amp - Audison LRx 4.1k...for front and rear speakers.
Amp - Audison LRx 1.1k...for sub
Front speakers - Dynaudio Esotec 342 ...Woofers and mids in stock Bose 10" location, Tweets in stock Bose 3.5" location ( angled toward opposite headrest)
Rear speakers - BA S55
Sub - Image Dynamics IDQ10v3 D2 (at 1 ohm)
Sub enclosure - Boxology
Ipod Interface - PXAMG

When I first got the car back from the installer the voices (especially female) had so much treble, they were totally over powering.
I took it back to the installer. They made adjustments and it is better, but the voices are still over powering. It seems that there is a lack of midrange (the Music) with mostly VOICES and bass. If I adjust my treble to the lowest, and bass and midrange up, it helps, but the voices are almost painful to listen to.
The tweets and the mids are wired to the crossovers @ -2db.
I think the pain is from the Dynaudios ( not sure ) but when I stick my head between the rear BA S55's it sounds better.
Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks

[Kale]

The dyn dome mids are pretty bright. How much power are you giving them? That set likes about 250-300watts.

And the tweeters just sound harsh off axis, especially where your installer put them. Just a bit off axis, and they are golden. See my dyn tweet install:



c5, but same principal applies. I tried my dyn tweets in nearly every conceivable place in the car.

I had the 342 set... i ended up ditching the midrange, going 2 way active (2.5khz crossover @ 24db) with the dyn 8" and the dyn tweet. Not as much midrange detail, but way more pleasing a system. especially after some careful tuning.


try turning off the BA speakers entirely, you just end up with more cancellation and nasty effects from the rear speakers.

also, cut 3k tremendously.

[CraigE]

Kale, Thanks for the input. The spec sheet shows 4ch x 4 ohms = 130w x 2 + 140w x 2.
Are the crossovers at -2db the best for my problem?
The tweets are angled up ( toward the opp. headrest ). Should I try rotating them ( 3 directions remain ) or ditch the mids and move the tweets down next to the woofer?
I was hesitant about the 3 way.
Maybe I should ditch the Dynaudios and go with the ID 6x9 2 way.
Can you please explain what you mean " cut 3k tremendously "
I've spent a lot of $$ already but want to have it right.

[Kale]

swapping to some overpriced 6x9s isn't going to help. These Dyns are some great drivers that can be totally made to sound right with a good install.

the problem is, installers take high end drivers, and just cram them into stock locations.

adding rear speakers makes things even messier.

I bet most of your brightness is coming from the dome mids.

cut 3k - as in use your eq to reduce 3khz... by 6db or more if you can.


Try changing the aiming of the dome mids, and the tweeters.


I think the fact that its 3 way is really over complicating things for you.

[53389]

Sir, please let the speakers break in. Dynaudios need alot of break in.

[Kale]

Originally Posted by 53389

Sir, please let the speakers break in. Dynaudios need alot of break in.

While the dyns do need break in, I'd say they dont really get much softer sounding. The midbass just loosens up a bit.

[53389]

Originally Posted by CraigE

I just had a new system installed in my 2007.

Stock Bose/nav HU... used line level output.
Amp - Audison LRx 4.1k...for front and rear speakers.
Amp - Audison LRx 1.1k...for sub
Front speakers - Dynaudio Esotec 342 ...Woofers and mids in stock Bose 10" location, Tweets in stock Bose 3.5" location ( angled toward opposite headrest)
Rear speakers - BA S55
Sub - Image Dynamics IDQ10v3 D2 (at 1 ohm)
Sub enclosure - Boxology
Ipod Interface - PXAMG

When I first got the car back from the installer the voices (especially female) had so much treble, they were totally over powering.
I took it back to the installer. They made adjustments and it is better, but the voices are still over powering. It seems that there is a lack of midrange (the Music) with mostly VOICES and bass. If I adjust my treble to the lowest, and bass and midrange up, it helps, but the voices are almost painful to listen to.
The tweets and the mids are wired to the crossovers @ -2db.
I think the pain is from the Dynaudios ( not sure ) but when I stick my head between the rear BA S55's it sounds better.
Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks

CraigE

Sir, Please Check Your Private Message

[BOXOLOGY]

Hope they get you taken care of... I know you were anxious to get your system done... pm me if you need any help...

[scott_fx]

Originally Posted by 53389

CraigE

Sir, Please Check Your Private Message

whaaa?? no need to be bashful, share your input! this subforum has some pretty open minded people. very rarely are there any flame wars

[Kale]

Originally Posted by scott_fx

whaaa?? no need to be bashful, share your input! this subforum has some pretty open minded people. very rarely are there any flame wars

maybe its emilios in disguise.

[CraigE]

OK ..I aimed the mids down 7 degs. My first impression is that maybe I should have went half that much ( 3 or 4 deg ). I didn't get much listening time last night. Boy have I gotten fast at R&R'ing the pita door panels. Here are a few pix. Kale,..... you were sure right about dropping the rear speakers. Thanks... When I move the fade to the front it sounds much better. Today I'm gonna try disconnecting the rears and add that power to the Dyns in front. On a 4 ch is there a difference in the front and rear channels ? Should I run all 4 channels to the to the fronts, or just the front channels ? Here are a few pix.

[Kale]

Can you swap mounts so that the midbass is closer, and the midrange is farther away? That might help some.


I hope you got a big discount on those speakers or bought them used, they are the old models. (Unless you got old crossovers and debadged speakers.)

(difference being, tweeter is not nearly as good as the new ones, and midbass is not quite as good. Midrange dome is about the same.)

You can tell easily - on the back of the speakers they should be:
MD102
MD142
MW162

instead of 100, 140, 160...

[CraigE]

The box says MW162,MD142,MD102,X362. I'm sure they are the latest.... from a reputable authorized dealer. I'll look at reversing them. Thanks for all your help.

[Kale]

weird, I wonder why they don't have the update crossovers, or logos on the baskets...

[CraigE]

I'm going to disconnect the rear speakers. Does it make sense to use 2 ch of the 4 ch amp to drive the mids and tweets thru the passive x-over, and drive the 7" mid bass woofers with the remaining 2 ch active x-over ? It seems that would give a lot of adjustment to tune the voices.
Am I spinning my wheels by using the stock HU on an otherwise upper end system?

[Kale]

your biggest enemy here is the install, not the head unit.

I would bridge that 4 channel amp to deliver more power entirely to the Dyn set.

You can actually modify the dyn crossovers to allow biamping, which would allow you to lower the volume of the midrange and tweeter further; however, that will void the crossover warranty and I'm not familiar with the specifics.

[TheKomoman]

Originally Posted by Kale

your biggest enemy here is the install, not the head unit.

I would bridge that 4 channel amp to deliver more power entirely to the Dyn set.

You can actually modify the dyn crossovers to allow biamping, which would allow you to lower the volume of the midrange and tweeter further; however, that will void the crossover warranty and I'm not familiar with the specifics.

As my buddy spkrboy often points out, passive crossovers are more than just frequency splitters. Better off leaving it in there and seeing what you get.

[CraigE]

Kale... good eye ..After checking the numbers on everything, I (more you) found the passenger side x-over to be the older model x360 and the driver side the new x362. The 360 crosses over at higher range. Next, the MW162 were actually MW162GT. I contacted the installer , they contacted Dynaudio who overnighted a complete new Esotec System 342. I took the car in and they fabbed new baffles, swapping positions of the 4" mid and the 7" woofer ( per your suggestion)( see pic). And they disconnected the rears. The Audison manual does not show the 4.1k in two channel mode. The installer contacted Audison and they said you can bridge it into two channel but thought it would be better to run the 7" woofers from b channel active. So thats the setup for now. What a difference, the voices are now well balanced with the instruments, cymbals and snare drum are clear, and the system sounds great. I'm sure there will still be some fine tuning needed after the speakers break in. But I'm happy .. I'm not sure why the Audison manual shows a 2 channel diagram for the 4.5k but not the 4.1. I will contact them to find out.
Also, the installer had removed the badges on the domed mids and tweets, so the wouldn't show through the grills. I had the badges left on, just for you, this time.
Anyway, Kale THANKS if I'm ever in your hood I'll definetly buy the beer

[Kale]

Great! Though I'm really shocked the installer didnt notice one was a GT -
Because they look strikingly different on the back (stamped basket on the gt vs the big beefy cast basket of the normal mw162)

Glad to hear you've got it more dialed in now. The speakers should only start sounding better and better (little smoother, more midbass) as they break in.

[CraigE]

The GT's were on both sides, the x overs were what was different from side to side.