spkrboy and others speaker guys... questions about custom (home..shh)speaker install
Hey guys,
I've been struggling over a ht setup in my non-ideal family/living room. and I have a few options i'm considering. My main limitation is the space that i have under my tv. I have a wall mounted plasma above a soon to be built mantle over my fireplace. I have coved ceilings and only about 5 or so inches between the mantle and the tv. So i'm at a loss on how to set up a 5.1 surround. i'm going to be testing out some of zaph's full range and also a tb small cube variant (cube is 5" square). I think zaph's will be the winner by not sure if it's going to fit.
I was wondering if there were any good in-wall diy designs out there. Would the zaph speakers work if i mounted them in the wall? is there an option of a wall mounted line array with 3" drivers? (not terribly expensive either) I was thinking about 4 hi-vi b3s's per chan mounted in the wall but i'm confused about the enclosure. Any suggestions, or am i just hosed here?
If all else fails i'm going to go take a listen to the speakercraft time in ceiling speakers and go with those but they just seem so expensive for a compromised (in ceiling) setup.
thanks in advance.
's
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'99 Navy Blue
Engine: Borlas, Vortech, HRE 547R, TTS headers, Engine built at A&A (220 - 224 Comp X-ER .581 lift, A&A Stage II ported LS1 heads)
Audio: Car-PC, Butler/Phaze Tube Amps, Dyn/Seas, Zapco, TC-sounds
FWIW: I'm been in the AV industry for 20+ years. Systems integration as it were. High end dedicated HT rooms, AV distribution, HVAC control, Lighting control, etc, etc.
Those Preference were well reviewed by The Perfect Vision, who's opinion I have found to be very reliable.
Quote:
Summary
The performance of the OEM
Systems Preference K-5LCR speakers
belies their modest suggested retail
price of $229 each. Had I not known
the price in advance, I would have
guessed they sold for more, perhaps
as much as $400-$500 each. They
are a great value and their sound
quality rivals that of speakers costing
much more. They are easy to listen to
for long periods without fatigue and
their balanced sound makes them
good for many different genres of
music. I do not have the space to
describe all of the features and technologies
these speakers have to offer,
so check out OEM’s Web site for
more information. OEM’s Preference
K-5LCR in-walls sound good, are
well built and easy to install, and
they won’t break the bank. What
more could you ask?
I have a set of SLS Q-Line Silver speakers that I use in my home office. They're not spectacular but for $800 including a re-badged Sherwood receiver they're a heck of a value. They are not in-wall, but they work quite well on-wall. Check out the review here - you just have to give 'em an e-mail address to access it:
I've read that they can be had for a bargain if you can manage to find them around the net, but I gave up and paid the $800 from SLS directly so I could actually get them.
FWIW: I'm been in the AV industry for 20+ years. Systems integration as it were. High end dedicated HT rooms, AV distribution, HVAC control, Lighting control, etc, etc.
wow, what a list of credentials! Thanks for your suggestion but i'm kinda poor right now after getting my first house and spending money on house repairs as well. That first option does sound promising but i'm a little leery about having a long speaker on top of the mantle (what a pansy statement huh?) It's not that i don't like the look of having speakers since i have two large def tech bp-10's right now, its just i'm not sold on the aesthetics of that because i feel itll make everything look too cramped.
the other one is just out of my pricerange at the moment. :-(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spkrboy
You're gonna hate me for this... but if in-wall were the only option, I'd do these: JM in-wall kit
The Triads KTK mentioned are pretty good too. Just avoid the coaxes (you know how they make me say crazy things).
You're right, I hate you! you're still mad at me for 'yelling' at you, aren't you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKomoman
Those Preference were well reviewed by The Perfect Vision, who's opinion I have found to be very reliable.
I've read that they can be had for a bargain if you can manage to find them around the net, but I gave up and paid the $800 from SLS directly so I could actually get them.
those are about the same size as the zaph's and i'd rather go with the zaph for the performance and price.
I'm not married to inwalls, and most wont fit for my center chan. I was just wondering if i could do an infante baffle of sorts with some fullrange and then blend them into the sub. I'm not sure about the science behind it all but as far a fitting 3" fullranges in the tight space, it just seemed like it should be something i should explore. does that make sense? i haven't gotten out of work before 12 this whole week and i get to work the weekend...so i'm a little out of it
You're right, I hate you! you're still mad at me for 'yelling' at you, aren't you! ...those are about the same size as the zaph's and i'd rather go with the zaph for the performance and price.
That's OK, I'm used to it since Komoman yells at me all the time. I figured the JMs were a bit much but I love that design.
If something from Zaph's site is your plan, you can make it work. There are just a few things you'll have to be able to figure out. You certainly can use a number of his designs modified to be an in-wall, but you'll have to change the cabinet and the crossover designs somewhat since Zaph tends to consider baffle-step in his crossovers. That basically marries the crossover to the enclosure. Without knowing which designs you were considering, I can't really point you any closer.
There was a day when I was more concerned about performance and I didn't care what it looked like. I built and decorated the room AROUND my systems. Then I got married. All that went out the window. Unless you are building a studio from the ground up, you will have to make compromises in performance.
There are lots of in-wall systems these days that can fit the bill aesthetically. I would look for something from the pro market instead of the home hi-fi market. You will get much more for your money. I won't make any direct suggestions because opinions are like a-holes, everybody has one. You are in a business that should put you in contact with studios and studio suppliers that could direct you to a very good system for almost any budget. Check with your local pro audio dealers and see what they have. My guess is you'll save money and get a better system. They usually know what they're doing more than your average ceiling speaker installer.
I've seen some pretty impressive systems from major pro audio manufacturers with aimable tweeters and good in-wall designs.
If something from Zaph's site is your plan, you can make it work. There are just a few things you'll have to be able to figure out. You certainly can use a number of his designs modified to be an in-wall, but you'll have to change the cabinet and the crossover designs somewhat since Zaph tends to consider baffle-step in his crossovers. That basically marries the crossover to the enclosure. Without knowing which designs you were considering, I can't really point you any closer.
I was considering this because the driver is 3" in diameter and will allow me to sneak it between the tv and the mantle. I'd love to go with a better design but I dont think i could fit a 5" or 6" driver there
Quote:
Originally Posted by robvuk
There was a day when I was more concerned about performance and I didn't care what it looked like. I built and decorated the room AROUND my systems. Then I got married. All that went out the window. Unless you are building a studio from the ground up, you will have to make compromises in performance.
thanks for your input. the traditional inwalls aren't going to fit though, that's why i was hoping to bastardize a diy speaker plan and try to shoe horn it into my plans. A common misconception with me is that i'm an audiophile... i'm not, rather i consider myself a technophile (if that's a word) so i can compromise a bit on top notch sound reproduction.
When you construct this crossover, do it so resistor R2 is easily removed and replaced. That might mean using some kind of terminal, binding post or other quick release method. R2 is a baffle step compensation resistor. Adjusting R2 is the key to making this driver fit your application and preference. For most people, R2=8ohms will work the best. Use that as a starting point and read on below.
Build the XO the way he describes (especially the quick-access R2) using a 4-ohm R2. When you order the XO parts, order a bunch of additional resistors (2-ohm, 3,4,5,6,7,8). they're very cheap and in his design you can have them sitting at your side while you listen to the effects of each.
This actually is a decent choice for a center channel simply for the fact that it should do speech (90% centered) very effectively. I haven't looked at it closely enough to decide if it's a viable L/R setup.
If you actually go this route, I have some helpful methods you can use to get the XO component values he insists on, which are non-standard.
first off, thanks to everyone that has given any input.
i do have all the components to make a pair of them to test out with all the values he insisted on with the help of the guys over at madisound.
i'm open to other suggestions for l/r and surrounds but hopefully they'll be decent for l/r's too because they'd all sonically match.
my initial listening impressions (no x/o) was very promissing with that little driver. now just to figure out how to get that center chan in there.
I'm going to build another cabinet with the same internal volume but about twice the height and a little shorter width and see if i'll be ok with the way it sounds. hope that the baffle step plays nicely with that design
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spkrboy and others speaker guys... questions about custom (home..shh)speaker install
