C6 - c7
11-27-2013, 01:49 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
C6 - c7
I wouldn't dare post this on the C7 forum but maybe here I can get some honest information without hysteria.
I'm driving an LS3 vert, Z51, NPP, A6. Its my 4th vette. I like vettes. I'll likely get a C7 next year or perhaps wait until the year after, I really like the car.
Normally, I take magazine reviews with a grain of salt as they are known shills for advertisers will say anything to increase circulation but, across the board, reviews of the C7 have been sensational.
I haven't had a chance to drive one yet, dealers around here haven't made demos available.
Its starting to sound like the C6 is just a lump, compared to the C7 and I'm trying to figure out why the disrespect for the C6.
When I compare the two on specs and layout, it doesn't look like there should be an enormous difference. The basic layout of the two cars is the same, front engine, rear transaxle, frame, subframes, leaf springs, shocks. Gas tanks in the same place. Weight is within a couple of percent. I can see where it might have improved steering feel but my car's steering is way better than my C5 and better than LS2 cars I've driven. I think the C6 Z51 has pretty good road feel through the steering and suspension.
Engine output is not different enough to be sensational, the C7 supposedly has improved midrange.
The interior seems to have better quality materials and the seat construction seems much improved but door cards, dash, etc don't seem all that different. I, personally think the seats in my car are comfortable for the street, not so much for the track.
So I'm seeing some nice styling and interior design and an incremental increase in performance specs. Not the game changer the reviewers all seem to be raving about. Its not mid engine, there's no dual clutch.
Again, I'm not dissing the C7 and I'm looking forward to buying one but, based on the layout and specs, where are the revolutionary changes make the C6 barely driveable?
I'm driving an LS3 vert, Z51, NPP, A6. Its my 4th vette. I like vettes. I'll likely get a C7 next year or perhaps wait until the year after, I really like the car.
Normally, I take magazine reviews with a grain of salt as they are known shills for advertisers will say anything to increase circulation but, across the board, reviews of the C7 have been sensational.
I haven't had a chance to drive one yet, dealers around here haven't made demos available.
Its starting to sound like the C6 is just a lump, compared to the C7 and I'm trying to figure out why the disrespect for the C6.
When I compare the two on specs and layout, it doesn't look like there should be an enormous difference. The basic layout of the two cars is the same, front engine, rear transaxle, frame, subframes, leaf springs, shocks. Gas tanks in the same place. Weight is within a couple of percent. I can see where it might have improved steering feel but my car's steering is way better than my C5 and better than LS2 cars I've driven. I think the C6 Z51 has pretty good road feel through the steering and suspension.
Engine output is not different enough to be sensational, the C7 supposedly has improved midrange.
The interior seems to have better quality materials and the seat construction seems much improved but door cards, dash, etc don't seem all that different. I, personally think the seats in my car are comfortable for the street, not so much for the track.
So I'm seeing some nice styling and interior design and an incremental increase in performance specs. Not the game changer the reviewers all seem to be raving about. Its not mid engine, there's no dual clutch.
Again, I'm not dissing the C7 and I'm looking forward to buying one but, based on the layout and specs, where are the revolutionary changes make the C6 barely driveable?
11-27-2013, 02:08 AM
#3
Tech Contributor
Seriously?
So you don't believe anything in the magazines. You don't want to post in the C7 section. You don't want to believe any of the improvements that GM advertises. So by posting in the C6 section you'll get a better answer?
Go drive one.
11-27-2013, 08:24 AM
#5
Safety Car
To state the obvious if any product didn't get better it wouldn't last. That being said for me the performance is very similar so it comes down to style, and for my money a 12 year old designed the C7. On top of that the butchery of the car at the build level would make me stay far away until they got it right, and if anyone says it's teething issues that's BS. The build quality is well below par!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11-27-2013, 08:33 AM
#6
Supporting Lifetime
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Syracuse NY
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2023 C1 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2022 Corvette of the Year Finalist -- Unmodified
2021 C1 of the Year Winner - Unmodified
2020 C1 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2016 C1 of the Year Finalist
Not an entirely good analogy, but if you were driving a Lamborghini Diablo when the Aventador came out, how would you feel?
A. My Diablo is no longer current. I must have an Aventador. Now.
B. I really like my Diablo. It still turns heads. I'll wait a while.
C. My Diablo is trash.
D. The Reventon is "better", but not THAT much better.
E. Dude, are you serious? I'm driving a Lamborghini.
A. My Diablo is no longer current. I must have an Aventador. Now.
B. I really like my Diablo. It still turns heads. I'll wait a while.
C. My Diablo is trash.
D. The Reventon is "better", but not THAT much better.
E. Dude, are you serious? I'm driving a Lamborghini.
11-27-2013, 08:44 AM
#7
I'm out at Spring Mountain for the Ron Fellows school this week, and I've been driving the heck out of the C7 Z51 for the past two days. Coming out of a 2011 Grand Sport coupe (my daily driver), the difference in comfort, performance, and feel was honestly greater than I expected.
The cockpit ergonomics and seating position feel quite a bit different than my GS, and the seats in the C7 are phenomenal and really hold you in place during track work. When I've tracked my GS I hang on to the steering wheel for dear life because I'm sliding all over the place in those seats. The seat ventilation is really nice for keeping cool when you're working up a sweat out on track.
Performance and feel are where the C7 really leaps ahead of my GS. Is it faster in a straight line than my GS? Probably only marginally. But you can definitely feel the torque of the LT1 earlier in the rev band, whereas the LS3 doesn't really come alive until around 4K RPM. On track, it simply feels more solid and tossable. It's extremely easy to steer the C7 with the throttle in a long sweeper, and it's very eager to turn in.
At risk of bringing out the Porsche haters (Why can't we all just get along?), I will say this. I recently did a Porsche Sport Driving School, and after driving the Carrera S and Cayman S I found my GS somewhat lacking. I'm sure it could manage better or comparable numbers to the Porsches in terms of acceleration, grip, etc., but it just didn't feel as planted and as willing to do what the driver asked of it. I didn't have the good fortune to drive the C7 back-to-back with those cars, but driving it on track is a very similar experience to driving a Carrera S--and that's a good thing.
More than anything, this is a testimony to the hard work and skill of the Corvette engineering team. It's validation that you don't have to give the Corvette a revolutionary change like a mid-mounted flat-plane V8 to improve it. Like so many things, the devil is in the details, and driving the C7 tells me the Corvette team has really been sweating those details during the development of this car.
The cockpit ergonomics and seating position feel quite a bit different than my GS, and the seats in the C7 are phenomenal and really hold you in place during track work. When I've tracked my GS I hang on to the steering wheel for dear life because I'm sliding all over the place in those seats. The seat ventilation is really nice for keeping cool when you're working up a sweat out on track.
Performance and feel are where the C7 really leaps ahead of my GS. Is it faster in a straight line than my GS? Probably only marginally. But you can definitely feel the torque of the LT1 earlier in the rev band, whereas the LS3 doesn't really come alive until around 4K RPM. On track, it simply feels more solid and tossable. It's extremely easy to steer the C7 with the throttle in a long sweeper, and it's very eager to turn in.
At risk of bringing out the Porsche haters (Why can't we all just get along?), I will say this. I recently did a Porsche Sport Driving School, and after driving the Carrera S and Cayman S I found my GS somewhat lacking. I'm sure it could manage better or comparable numbers to the Porsches in terms of acceleration, grip, etc., but it just didn't feel as planted and as willing to do what the driver asked of it. I didn't have the good fortune to drive the C7 back-to-back with those cars, but driving it on track is a very similar experience to driving a Carrera S--and that's a good thing.
More than anything, this is a testimony to the hard work and skill of the Corvette engineering team. It's validation that you don't have to give the Corvette a revolutionary change like a mid-mounted flat-plane V8 to improve it. Like so many things, the devil is in the details, and driving the C7 tells me the Corvette team has really been sweating those details during the development of this car.
11-27-2013, 09:12 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
As already stated, if you don't improve on a new model over the older model you will not be around long. Well Corvette is in its 61st year, so they must be doing something right.
As for the C6 being a lump, I don't thing so. Sure the C7 is an improvement over the C6 as will be the C8 over the C7 and the C6 was over the C5. That is just how it goes. I was not impressed with the C7 when it was unveiled in Detroit, but once I was able to see in in person and sit in it, I changed my mind.
As far as the different reviews go, that should also be a selling point as these publications are not known for being kind to the Corvette. This model seems to have changed all of that.
As for the C6 being a lump, I don't thing so. Sure the C7 is an improvement over the C6 as will be the C8 over the C7 and the C6 was over the C5. That is just how it goes. I was not impressed with the C7 when it was unveiled in Detroit, but once I was able to see in in person and sit in it, I changed my mind.
As far as the different reviews go, that should also be a selling point as these publications are not known for being kind to the Corvette. This model seems to have changed all of that.
11-27-2013, 09:35 AM
#9
Just my Two Cents . . .
No plans to buy a C7, here's why.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
11-27-2013, 09:47 AM
#10
Race Director
That is why its fun to point out how 
some C7 guys are. Its
no different than any first years Corvette. Just new because
its tail/headlight. They pretend ( all many are) boy racers who
have finally managed to scrape up enough dough for one. So
now many dream of being a race car driver going to pick up the
mail or morning breakfast at Ihop. Logical ones don't play.
The car is really no different than the C6. As you and many
others can see from the Spec's. Some of the stuff being put
on the car, they don't like and are complaining, but quickly
back off when the C7 gods scold them. Causing quirky rides,
complicated digital feedback. About the only thing can see
gm finally did was put a good stereo in the car
Also the way they jump people reporting issues, whether
minor or not. gm has taken a step backward to the 70's
in their quality control. Good bet many are not reporting
because gm planted patrol are ready to pounce.
Sure I could trade my 9,000 mile 06 vert, but hard to
see $73,400 on a new one. Heck I don't even drive to the
mail or Ihop. In the small town where live, if floored it
be out of town before the second shift.
I call it
formal living/dining furniture, you look it, enjoy it, but seldom
sit on it.
some C7 guys are. Itsno different than any first years Corvette. Just new because
its tail/headlight. They pretend ( all many are) boy racers who
have finally managed to scrape up enough dough for one. So
now many dream of being a race car driver going to pick up the
mail or morning breakfast at Ihop. Logical ones don't play.
The car is really no different than the C6. As you and many
others can see from the Spec's. Some of the stuff being put
on the car, they don't like and are complaining, but quickly
back off when the C7 gods scold them. Causing quirky rides,
complicated digital feedback. About the only thing can see
gm finally did was put a good stereo in the car
Also the way they jump people reporting issues, whether
minor or not. gm has taken a step backward to the 70's
in their quality control. Good bet many are not reporting
because gm planted patrol are ready to pounce.
Sure I could trade my 9,000 mile 06 vert, but hard to
see $73,400 on a new one. Heck I don't even drive to the
mail or Ihop. In the small town where live, if floored it
be out of town before the second shift.
I call itformal living/dining furniture, you look it, enjoy it, but seldom
sit on it.
11-27-2013, 09:49 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
No plans to buy a C7, here's why.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
11-27-2013, 10:00 AM
#12
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
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The C6 is not a lump, and is a very good performer.
The C7 enjoys a lot of incremental improvements that appear to add up to make for a better overall Corvette. Better interior. Stiffer chassis and frame. Updated PTM. E-diff, which allows putting power down earlier coming out curves. Enhanced downforce. Etc.
Each of those alone probably isn't a huge change. But you add all of them together and it has a positive impact.
Which, frankly, as mentioned above, one would expect - i.e. the new variant should be better.
The C7 enjoys a lot of incremental improvements that appear to add up to make for a better overall Corvette. Better interior. Stiffer chassis and frame. Updated PTM. E-diff, which allows putting power down earlier coming out curves. Enhanced downforce. Etc.
Each of those alone probably isn't a huge change. But you add all of them together and it has a positive impact.
Which, frankly, as mentioned above, one would expect - i.e. the new variant should be better.
11-27-2013, 10:08 AM
#14
Team Owner
When you drive the C7 you will be able to judge for yourself what all the hoopla is about. I doubt each magazine and review of the C7 is overstating their impressions, results, of it compared to the C6.
The C7 like it or not is better that the C6 in many ways.
You will soon discover that when you get a test drive.
The C7 like it or not is better that the C6 in many ways.
You will soon discover that when you get a test drive.
11-27-2013, 10:10 AM
#15
Safety Car
No plans to buy a C7, here's why.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
No brainer for me. The modest upgrades in HP and interior, botched introduction and quality problems, and of course the very controversial styling leaves me loving my C6. I'll pass.
11-27-2013, 10:47 AM
#16
The C7 is all it's cracked up to be! The improvements are obvious, the styling is subjective, but one thing that's undeniable is it's not a C6! I prefer the wide body style and would expect to see a WB in the coming years. However, the "wall" between me and a C7 is interior comfort for a big man. Unless I shrink vertically and horizontally (or they re-design the interior ...), the C7 is not in my future.
My next door neighbor divorced and now has a new sexy wife, but I still love mine ...
My next door neighbor divorced and now has a new sexy wife, but I still love mine ...
11-27-2013, 11:00 AM
#17
Drifting
No plans to buy a C7, here's why.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
Having owned a 96 C4, a 00 C5 and now a 06 C6, driven for pleasure only (no track time). The C5 was a 'clean sheet of paper' design over the C4, BIG improvements.
The C6 is a revision of the C5, the big upgrade is the 6 speed automatic transmission, worth getting because it improves the driving experience so much (over the 4 speed).
If money wasn't a factor in buying the C7, I'd wait to the second year of production (2015) and get one. Because the C6 is excellent, I don't believe the cost for the C7 would be worth it to me.
Just my two cents, after a combined 15 years of seat time in the three cars.
11-27-2013, 11:01 AM
#18
Race Director
The c7 has improvements over the c6 but it for sure doesn't look better lol...In fact it isn't even really pretty. It really needs some dental and some *** work to make your knees weak like the c5&6 still does.
I've purchased four c6's but there will be no c7 until the *** is fixed. And yes beauty is subjective but someone here thinks she's hot...
The c7 forum is very entertaining though...lol I'm guessing the c6 owners that moved up appreciates the c6 still and are more objective than most of the newbies c7 guys up there who might rank high on the retard scale. They make Porsche guys seem normal.
I've purchased four c6's but there will be no c7 until the *** is fixed. And yes beauty is subjective but someone here thinks she's hot...
The c7 forum is very entertaining though...lol I'm guessing the c6 owners that moved up appreciates the c6 still and are more objective than most of the newbies c7 guys up there who might rank high on the retard scale. They make Porsche guys seem normal.
11-27-2013, 11:30 AM
#19
Safety Car
I'm out at Spring Mountain for the Ron Fellows school this week, and I've been driving the heck out of the C7 Z51 for the past two days. Coming out of a 2011 Grand Sport coupe (my daily driver), the difference in comfort, performance, and feel was honestly greater than I expected.
The cockpit ergonomics and seating position feel quite a bit different than my GS, and the seats in the C7 are phenomenal and really hold you in place during track work. When I've tracked my GS I hang on to the steering wheel for dear life because I'm sliding all over the place in those seats. The seat ventilation is really nice for keeping cool when you're working up a sweat out on track.
Performance and feel are where the C7 really leaps ahead of my GS. Is it faster in a straight line than my GS? Probably only marginally. But you can definitely feel the torque of the LT1 earlier in the rev band, whereas the LS3 doesn't really come alive until around 4K RPM. On track, it simply feels more solid and tossable. It's extremely easy to steer the C7 with the throttle in a long sweeper, and it's very eager to turn in.
At risk of bringing out the Porsche haters (Why can't we all just get along?), I will say this. I recently did a Porsche Sport Driving School, and after driving the Carrera S and Cayman S I found my GS somewhat lacking. I'm sure it could manage better or comparable numbers to the Porsches in terms of acceleration, grip, etc., but it just didn't feel as planted and as willing to do what the driver asked of it. I didn't have the good fortune to drive the C7 back-to-back with those cars, but driving it on track is a very similar experience to driving a Carrera S--and that's a good thing.
More than anything, this is a testimony to the hard work and skill of the Corvette engineering team. It's validation that you don't have to give the Corvette a revolutionary change like a mid-mounted flat-plane V8 to improve it. Like so many things, the devil is in the details, and driving the C7 tells me the Corvette team has really been sweating those details during the development of this car.
The cockpit ergonomics and seating position feel quite a bit different than my GS, and the seats in the C7 are phenomenal and really hold you in place during track work. When I've tracked my GS I hang on to the steering wheel for dear life because I'm sliding all over the place in those seats. The seat ventilation is really nice for keeping cool when you're working up a sweat out on track.
Performance and feel are where the C7 really leaps ahead of my GS. Is it faster in a straight line than my GS? Probably only marginally. But you can definitely feel the torque of the LT1 earlier in the rev band, whereas the LS3 doesn't really come alive until around 4K RPM. On track, it simply feels more solid and tossable. It's extremely easy to steer the C7 with the throttle in a long sweeper, and it's very eager to turn in.
At risk of bringing out the Porsche haters (Why can't we all just get along?), I will say this. I recently did a Porsche Sport Driving School, and after driving the Carrera S and Cayman S I found my GS somewhat lacking. I'm sure it could manage better or comparable numbers to the Porsches in terms of acceleration, grip, etc., but it just didn't feel as planted and as willing to do what the driver asked of it. I didn't have the good fortune to drive the C7 back-to-back with those cars, but driving it on track is a very similar experience to driving a Carrera S--and that's a good thing.
More than anything, this is a testimony to the hard work and skill of the Corvette engineering team. It's validation that you don't have to give the Corvette a revolutionary change like a mid-mounted flat-plane V8 to improve it. Like so many things, the devil is in the details, and driving the C7 tells me the Corvette team has really been sweating those details during the development of this car.
11-27-2013, 11:45 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
I think the C7 has better technology which allows the driver to achieve higher levels of performance...but when it comes down to it a skilled driver in a C6 will likely smoke the average joe in a C7...I'm talking road course here...so when the cars look similar on paper I think the X-factor in technology assist...dare I say the "GTR Factor"...
Last edited by C6ROLLER; 11-27-2013 at 11:47 AM.