Flame Red

Got a newbie question here. Was thinking ob putting in a PLX wide band AFR setup and wanted to know if the wideband Bosch sensor can replace the stock o2 sensor? Will the ECM be able to interpret the wideband sensor output correctly?

Or do I need to have both sensors, sotck sensor going to ECM and the wide band going to the gauge?

Thanks in advance!

Flame Red

Oh, never mind. I see that the Innovate LC-1 wide band does this so I ordered that system.

MarkBychowski

Let us know how it works out! I've been looking at doing this myself.

simple green

Yes, please update.

Flame Red

I installed the Innovate system on Friday. Took a couple of hours. It is well put together, with quality parts, substantial connectors, and good documentation (some of which is on their web site).

I got the LC-1 with the XD16 kit, so it came with almost all the cables needed to complete the job. The one cable that was missing for me was a USB to DB9 serial converter because my LapTop does not have a 9 pin serial port. I ordered one from Walmart for $21 shipped so you may just want to go ahead and get that in advance if your lap top does not have a DB9 serial connection.

The XD16 gauge was about $120 extra over the LC-1. It is not necessary to do data captures, but I decided that if I did not get it I would have probably eventually added it anyway. One thing is that it does make it easier to do the necessary calibration of the O2 sensor. Without it you must use the PC software (cable missing for USB), or use a LED and switch that connects to a separate lead.

Looking at a lot of forums, people were saying the NKG wide band sensor was better. I won't be able to form an opinion for years. But the documentation does say that the Bosch sensor needs to be open air calibrated before its first use, and then every few years or so many miles. Some people were saying the NGK lasted longer. I will need some years to figure that out. The O2 sensor has to be removed from the exhaust to do that open air calibration. It only takes a few seconds. With the XD16, you just hit the button on the gauge to trigger it, then you can put that (really hot) sensor into the bung and use it.

The heating element on the sensor works great and it only takes it a couple of seconds to get hot enough to burn your hands! Hook up was very simple, you need to ground two wires from the LC-1 controller, a 12V positive switched source (I tapped into the fan relay supply), and the connector to the old o2 sensor goes to another lead (serial 1). The computer seems to accept the output and did not set any codes and the ranges seemed to be about right as measured by TunerPro and the ALDL. So it is not necessary to run both the a wide band and a narrow band with this setup.

Make sure the sensor is mounted as near the 12 o'clock position as possible, so any condensation does not collect on the sensor as it would if it were mounted at 6 o'clock. That would kill the sensor. Mine was welded at 3 o'clock which makes it easy to access and not interfere with any other stuff.

One other point about mounting. The Hooker long tubes I have came with a bung mount on one tube very close to the flange. I knew not to use this mount as I would be only getting measurements for one cylinder rather than the entire bank.. But the wide band sensors are also sensitive to extreme heat according to the documentation. Since they are heated, there is no reason to take the chance and mount them too close to the engine. So if you have to weld a bung anyway, you may as well mount them as far back as you can just in front of the cats.

The one thing I cannot answer is for years that have two sensors. Mine had only one. I have long tube headers and the installer welded the bung on the left collector. I have true dual exhausts so I am definitely missing what is happening in the right bank. If you had two sensors and true dual exhausts I would guess you could replace one of them. If you have an x-pipe or go into a common cat it would be best to install it just in front of the cat where everything mixes together. If you still have pre-cats they need to go in front of them.

One major short coming of this setup is that the data capture does not capture RPM's with the sensor readings. That correlation is really necessary. You would have to buy their data logger and use that to capture that data and be able to correlate it. So all you get with this setup is AF or Lambda verses time.

But if you are looking for a reasonable priced wide-band unit that can take the place of the stock O2 sensor, this sure does the job.

Rohn

You can calibrate the sensor while installed in car. I do so when car will not be driven for 48 hours.

I often wondered if I were to hook up shop vac to pipe (dual) sensor is in would force in fresh air or evacuate so as to calibrate without delay?

I am able to get RPM from their sensor kit. I forget the part #. It required that I add a resister and add a potentiometer I recall(radio shack). They have directions on how to build that.

I agree on moving sensor back!! Mine is 16 inches behind collector flange. NO failures in 2.5 tuning seasons. Car is driven about 180 miles a week.

MarkBychowski

Thanks a lot for the great write up!

kangi

I'm looking into installing the WB also

rodj

There are hacks around (3rd Gen DIY Prom for one) that allow you to input the WB signal into the ECM so it can be logged with Datamaster or TP

Flame Red

I wanted to post a follow up to my original post. Yesterday, I took the Vette out on a long high speed run on an interstate for the first time since the install of the wide-band O2. I noticed that the SES light did come on. It did not seem to do this before in city driving. I pulled the code and found the dreaded code 32 (EGR) which is based on O2 sensor readings.

Now to be fair, I did install a Ostrich before this with a new program and I had not done any high speed interstate driving on that either, so it could be a combination of things. It is hard for me to be certain.

I resolved the matter by disabling code 32 with TunerCat.

rodj

What about just disabling the EGR all together by setting the activation temp to the max ?

Flame Red

Yes, I suppose that would work too, but I thought that it might cause engine problems if the EGR was disabled? I forget what a malfunctioning EGR can break, but I seem to remember that it can eventually cause some kind of problems.

KyleGernentz

What performance gains are trying to accomplish? What would yopu do to a 1991 Auto?

rodj

There are alot of naysayers out there but many of us have been running with the EGR disabled or completely removed for years with no problems
Some background reading
http://sethirdgen.org/egr.htm

Flame Red

Thanks for that interesting read. I see from that article that I am misinformed that code 32 is triggered by the O2 sensor. Seems like on Speed Density cars like mine, it is based on MAP. I think this exonerates the Innovate Wide Band setup and leads me to believe that the cause was the Moates Ostrich with the new program. For now, I'll just disable the Code 32. Thanks for the assistance.

dizwiz24

Flame red:

I recently installed an AEM UEGO wide band O2 sensor.

I have true duals on my '93. So I am monitoring the left bank because this bank is most likely to lean out because two adjacent cylinders on that side fire one right after the other. Its easy for one to get starved of fuel.

I had a bung welded in on the left side of my exhaust. These are downstream of my stock O2 sensors which are controlling my air/fuel mixture.

I also had a bung welded in the right side so I can monitor that said if need be. I put a cap in the bung, (coated with anti-seize), when the wide band sensor is not plugged in.

As for all these calibrations you mention, I dont know anything about it. The instruction manual on mine says just plug it in and go.

I can datalog the wideband output only to my laptop using a telnet type of software (there are instructions in my manual) - unfortunately without a reference RPM. Despite this handicap, I have still found this data useful. I can datalog a quick 3rd gear only highway pull to redline, and view the AFR across the range.

ninetyfivevette

Here's a link for some of you guys trying to log your WB data along with RPM in DataMaster:

http://camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535603

Some more essential information- the word location for the AC transducer in the datastream is different depending on what ECM/PCM you have.

You'll need to download this file http://www.akmcables.com/AlDlstuff.zip. Unzip and open the file called Index.doc. Find your application, and associated datastream definition. For example, I have a 1995 M6 bin in my PCM, so I had to open A275.ds. The AC transducer is byte 27, NOT 30 as in the above link.

Anyway, hopefully that helps someone.

cshuman

So are we saying that the wide band O2 thru the LC-1 will take the place of the stock O2? If so Does it just plug into the factory O2 connector?

Flame Red

It is not a direct plug in as they just give you bare wires so you have to either solder or buy a connector to plug into the factory connector. But once connected up it does appear to work on my 90. Just be aware that my ECM started to throw the dreaded code 32 after I did mine but I just turned off the code 32 in the ECM with TunerCat.

rtracy

What are these files and how do you open them? I can't seem to open A223.