Frankie the Fink

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=160330122445

Its overpriced (and I'm not buying it) but the fella claims its an F/I or 2X4 270HP starter - what is the diff between this and a base HP starter ? I thought they were all identical for 60/61 ?

Oh - and what is this (starter relay) and where does it go ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-1...3A1|240%3A1318

Is this in place of the typical solenoid ?

wmf62

this one looks more like a horn relay than anything to do with a starter.
Bill

Frankie the Fink

Good - I thought it didn't make sense.

Frank

DZAUTO

In this style of a starter, (57-later), there just is not anything "special", aside from the stamped part number and date code on the case.
For sure, the 55-56 V8 starters are different.
But for 57-later starters (I'm specifically referring to bell housing mounted starters for a V8), the guts, case, nose, solenoid, and misc hardware is all the same.
I do not own a starter-generator shop, but for 40+yrs, I've rebuilt my own as well as customer's starters, generators, alternators, etc. So, the only thing I can see of significance that would be different for a 2x4/FI starter would be the stamped part number on the starter.
When you tear down one of these early starters (FI, 1/2ton pickup, 348, etc) the brushes, armature, field coils, etc, are all the same). For sure, the starter nose that is attached to the bell housing with 3 bolts is the same. Now, it is possible that a cast starter nose from one vendor vs another vendor that supplied Delco-Remy with starter noses may have a slightly different shape in some areas, or the parting line from the casting mold may be a different shape. But the finished machined noses will all be 100% interchangeable.
Same thing goes for the steel starter case. There may be some physical differences in the appearance of a starter case, but the holes for mounting field coils, the hole for the solenoid terminal, the holes for the brush brackets, the location of the alignment pins for the nose, the end plate with a bushing for the armature, the 2 real long bolts which holds the assembled starter together, will all be 100% interchangeable. The starter drives (some of us old timers call them bendix) are the same, the fork for the solenoid plunger is the same.
So, as I said, I don't see what could be different or unique about that starter except for the stamped numbers---------------------and/or the seller's perception as to its value.

Tom Parsons

JohnZ

That was used on Powerglides as part of the neutral safety switch arrangement.

Frankie the Fink

Well darn, John - guess I'll stop looking for it on my 4-speed

I ordered a rebuild kit (including the starter drive) and new solenoid for a total of about $60 bucks or so. I can't see shelling out $190 for a ratty looking, but date-code correct starter for my '61...

I'm still getting the big grinding noise about once every 2-3 months on startup but on the second starter crank the engine starts right up. I'm thinking its the drive or a weak solenoid - don't buy a missing flywheel tooth.

I hate that noise, every time I hear it my butt takes up about a silver-dollar size piece of the driver's seat upholstery.

Ironcross

This starter is also used on passenger cars and trucks for several consecutive years with both high and low torque fields. They should be all over unless scrapped to extinction and I have never had a problem getting cores. If the number is important, who's going to tell, cant see it anyway. And $190.00 for a core is way over the top......

BTW the pictured starter is a low torque, not a heavy duty.

Frankie the Fink

I changed out a dozen or more starters "back in the day" on Chevys, but we didn't worry about date codes back then and GM starters were pretty much a universal fit over a broad range of years and models. People put the word "rare" in an ad and don't have a clue. Nearly 11,000 '61s built so there is not too much 'rare' about them....

Tom - thanks for the insights and I may 'ping' on you for rebuild help if I need it. Been about 40 years since I've broken open a starter but I will use the '61 Passenger Car Manual before hitting you up for expertise.

DZAUTO

I don't know exactly when the "hi-torque" version of the GM starter was introduced. But it is super easy to quickly identify the difference between a regular and a hi-torque version. Look at the main case of the starter, immediately forward of the lower solenoid terminal. The big, flat brass terminal which comes through the case is connected immediately next to the solenoid terminal on a regular torque starter. For the hi-torque starter, the flat terminal is approximately 3/4in further forward in the case and there is a 3/4in spacer between the lower solenoid terminal and the flat connector.
You can clearly see the difference below.



Also, the regular and hi-torque starter cases are 100% interchangeable between all GM V8 engines which use that style starter---------------regardless of left or right side starter mounting.
For example, if you have a car that has a regular torque starter (Chev, Buick, etc, doesn't matter), and lets say you have access to an old junk Olds with a 455 that has a good starter (which is a left side mount and it will be a hi-torque version). You can remove the nose from the Olds starter and install the nose from a Chevy bell housing mount starter onto the Olds hi-torque starter and drive it away.
And what did it cost?
Whatever it took to get down in the weeds under the junk Olds and pull the hi-torque starter!

Below is an Olds starter nose and a Chevy starter nose. Only the noses are different, the cases are an interchangeable fit.

Tom Parsons

DZAUTO

MikeM,
Are those pictures OK? Or do I need to do something different?

Tom Parsons

Ironcross

"Perfect" if they dont see the differences and become educated in the field of starters with those pictures and descriptions, then they must be blind.....Braille maybe..

you just took all the fun out of starters Tom,

Frankie the Fink

Well - what is correct for my car ? Lo-torque ?
I'm not climbing under there to look again today until the exhausts cool down from my trip to Chick-Fil-A..