kverges

First, apologies as I did a search, but it seemed many of the possibe hits had nothing in them and so I am posting what I am sure is a repeat question.

Anyway, just got a '61 and the charging system is not functioning. Ammeter shows discharge all the time, and with the engine running, the battery voltage is under 12V - that would clearly be bad for an alternator system, but I have never had a car with a generator.

Can anyone point me to the proper troubleshooting steps? I am not going with an alternator, as this car is very original and show quality and I plan to keep it that way.

Thanks.

L78racer

assuming the wiring is all good including grounds etc.
get a voltmeter and connect it to the battery.
remove the field wire 'F' from the generator.
start engine. run at about 1200 - 1800 rpm.
with another test jumper wire connected to the 'F' termial on the generator;
momentarily connect the test jumper to engine ground (block or head etc.)
watch the voltmeter.
if the voltage goes up to 13 to 18 or so volts; the regulator is the likely problem.

Ironcross

Without too much knowledge about your parts, {new- used-old} The system must be polarized or it will never work.

chris ritchie

Search the archives under "polarize." You should find a post that tells you how to do it. You momentarily connect 2 of the voltage regulator contacts. I'd tell you, but I forget which 2 right now.

Sometimes the voltage regulator contacts stick. You can whack the regulator to see if that helps. (Don't dent an expensive original voltage regulator.)

Those are the easy solution and the likely problems.

If that doesn't work, you'll need a troubleshooting procedure. That's found in repair manuals. Not too hard. You go through a decision tree to isolate the probelm to either the generator or voltage regulator, and then you replace one of them.

Frankie the Fink

Don't forget these old generators have brushes that sometimes need replacing. These systems seldom need polarizing unless you replace some major component but it doesn't hurt. With engine off connect BAT terminal to GEN terminal at the regulator for no more than 2 seconds with a short jumper wire - you will see a spark.

If it turns out to be the voltage regulator consider a solid state replacement. The ONLY place you can get one of these for a generator car is from an elderly gentlemen in New England (don't listen to all the folks that will tell you to get one from AutoZone they are for ALTERNATOR cars only!). This fella will put a solid state V/R in your original V/R case and its undetectable and no more points and armatures to screw with. I'll provide you his contact info if you are interested...I've run his conversion for 4 months now.

L78racer

to polarize, momentarily jumper the 'BAT' and 'GEN' terminals at the regulator.

devildog

Keith, you are in a very elite group now, not just a C-1 owner but a 61 owner.

The prior info is good. However, do not be tempted by non-believers to change to an alternator system. I have run my 61 for 40 years and over 180,000 miles with the alternator system and experienced few problems.

Joe

You will have some great support on this forum, contact me if you ever need to talk thru something on your 61.

Frankie the Fink

Did you mean, "180,000 miles with the generator system" ?

kverges

Thanks for the input . I will try all of the above. FYI, there were receipts with the car for a restored Generator and Alternator, including the polarizing procedure, so I am hoping there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the parts. The car is essentially show quality and got driven little, so if the regulator uses mechanical relay contacts to control voltage, I can see how they might have gotten stuck. All wiring is gorgeous with no signs of corrosion and I have ordered the factory service manual, so I will just get after it.

devildog

yes Frank I did mean generator

thanks

Joe

Ironcross

I believe that the {F} field wire has to be disconnected too,

L78racer

i don't think it does. i've not seen that in print anywhere.

Frankie the Fink

It does not - if you blow up the picture from a couple of my posts back the red stripe on the decal of the V/R lid contains the polarization instructions. No mention of disconnecting anything but car must NOT be running.

JohnZ

Correct - with the engine off, use a U-shaped insulated wire and touch it briefly to the "Bat" and "Gen" terminals at the same time; you'll get a juicy spark, and you're done.

DZAUTO

Or, if your are a hardcore "layman" (like me), use a pair of pliers!

DZAUTO

Frank!!!
Would you please send me the info about the voltage regulator conversion for a generator.
tparsons@***.net

DZAUTO

For a car with minimal to moderate electrical requirements, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with a generator system that has been properly maintained and is in good working condition.
On Corvettes (53-62), it is IMPERATIVE that the generator and regulator be WELL GROUNDED!!! The generator is already grounded by way of being attached to the engine block. Yes, the end frames are mounted in rubber bushings, BUT, the adjusting bracket is a solid metal-to-metal connection! The regulator is mounted direct to fiberglass, thus no ground. FROM THE FACTORY, there is a braided metal strap which is connedted between the generator case and the fcase of the regulator. THIS MUST BE A VERY SOLID, CORROSION FREE connection!
A generator, although ancient technology, is a very efficient source of electricity on these cars that don't require as much elec power as later cars with all the whistles and bells (literally), plus air cond. Usually, the most you have to power in the daytime is ignition and ocassional lights (turn and brake). At night, the major additional power load is the headlights, which any good generator can handle just fine.
The remaining system, wiring, connectors, switches, etc, needs to be in good condition with good continuity.
The generator on the 56 is the original generator, which has had ONLY bearings and brushes replaced. The regulator has been replaced 1 or 2 times since I bought it in 73.
One thing that I did do many years ago to extend the life of the generator, was to install a 4in pulley which reduces the generator's rpm.

L78racer

Tom, is that a GM part or do you know of a suitable aftermarket piece to accomplish this? I have the 3+5/8" pulley now. Thx.

Frankie the Fink

Done !

For others who may be interested:

This gentlemen (he is 82 years old but one sharp cookie) converts mechanical V/Rs to solid state V/Rs for generator cars using the original factory case and connections.
Its quality work too with a breadboard mounted inside the case and nice solder joints connecting components.

His biz address is:
Wilton Auto Electric, LLC
10 Stoney Brook Drive
Wilton, NH 03086

His email address is: bobj50@comcast.net.

I sent him the generator and V/R specs out of my ST-12 and he custom built and tuned the regulator and I have to say I have not had a minute's problem with it. The cost was reasonable and the turnaround was about 5 days.


Frank Dreano

DZAUTO

The 3 5/8in pulley was std and the 4in was on some "hi-perf" engines.
AND, the 4in pulley also came on some truck generators. It is, or at least was ALMOST identical to the Vette 4in pulley.
One day, back during the Civil War times, I walked into a "hole in the wall" generator-starter shop and mentioned to the owner that I was looking for a bigger (4in) pulley for my generator (I didn't tell him it was for a Vette). I followed him into the junky back room and he said he thought he had one that came off of an old Chevy truck. He reached up to a nail in a wood shelf that had a pulley hanging on the nail and pulled it off and showed it to me. While I was pee-peeing in my pants, I tried to remain calm, because I IMMEDIATELY recognized it as the same as a 4in Vette pulley. I asked how much he wanted for it (I knew the BIG ONE was coming. He said "I'll take a dollar for it". I said "I guess that's OK" (couldn't get my dollar out fast enough!!!!!!!!!!!!). I paid the exhorbatant price and thanked him and left. Had it chrome plated and it's been on the 56 generator now for about 25yrs.
What do original 4in pulleys go for now? $100? $200?