Shafiroff 540 ci dyno results....
05-23-2007, 10:29 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Shafiroff 540 ci dyno results....
Yeah, I know this is from the Camaro, but the results could potentially help someone making a purchase decision for their C3.
Car made 531.57 rwhp and 492.9 rwtq. Timing was 32 degrees total and A/F was right around 13.0.
Quick Vid...
Car feels great...
Bryan
Car made 531.57 rwhp and 492.9 rwtq. Timing was 32 degrees total and A/F was right around 13.0.
Quick Vid...
Car feels great...
Bryan
05-23-2007, 11:45 PM
#3
Safety Car
32* of timing ???? why?....that could be why it made max power at 5800. There is probably a lot of power left in it. Go throw 36* at it.
05-24-2007, 01:11 AM
#4
Advanced
Member Since: Apr 2007
Location: So Cal
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is it that guys are getting real close to that power level from n/a 350 cube LS1's that have been modified and a supposedly strong much larger big block is only putting out a little more?
Here's an LS1 with just over 500 rwhp.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602605
Here's an LS1 with just over 500 rwhp.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602605
Last edited by 745400; 05-24-2007 at 02:05 AM.
05-24-2007, 09:12 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
Why is it that guys are getting real close to that power level from n/a 350 cube LS1's that have been modified and a supposedly strong much larger big block is only putting out a little more?
Here's an LS1 with just over 500 rwhp.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602605
Here's an LS1 with just over 500 rwhp.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602605
Dude you just made me read through 6 pages of $hit on that ls1.tech thread. I have played with LS1s since 99 and I still can not believe they are getting that much power out of a 346. That is the only shop in the country doing that.... I gotta call BS on it. I could see MAYBE 470rwhp with the best heads, huge cam, 90/90, well tuned, open headers(cut outs) etc.... 503 is just crazy but more unbelieveable is the 400 ft lbs of tq at 3500... With no stroke in it??? I don't think so...I think that shop has a good advertising campaign to sell heads and cams.
MTI which is the most renowned LS1 shop in the country only gets 500-520rwhp out of their 427", Stg 3 heads(based on AFR), 90/90setup and thats a $20k motor.... Still impressive no doubt but.... you can buy a shafroff 540 for $11k turn key.
05-24-2007, 09:16 AM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
ajrothm - It is a 700 hp motor. TKO-600, Ford 9", 3" exhaust with dynomax mufflers.
69 N.O.X. RATT - I will tell you how that went down and I would be curious as to your thoughts. Before we did any dyno pull, we checked the initial timing, total timing, and timing curve just to see where Shafiroff had set it. We expected it to be conservative just because the motor does come with a warranty. Here was baseline: 11 degree of initial timing, 29 degree total timing with all of the timing in at 2,800 rpms. We then did a baseline pull to see where we were at. Next, we put in 3 degrees of initial timing to get initial timing of 14 degrees and total timing of 32 degrees and then did another dyno pull. At this point, the motor only picked up 8 HP. I had expected a bit more of an increase than that and since it was such a small increase, I decided to leave well enough alone as my number one priority yesterday was NOT to blow anything up. That being said, we left the timing as it was and started to tune from there. What would you have done at that point??
745400 - Head design for one. But, to be fair, I have a dyno I am looking at of a C6Z06 with cam, headers, airbox, tune and no cats that is putting down 556 rwhp and 482 rwtq. So, the peaks are higher than my setup. Interestingly enough, at 4,000 rpms my motor is up 45 rwhp and 70 rwtq over the Z06 motor. I will also say that my setup is a very 'mild' setup and I enjoy driving it a great deal.
B.
69 N.O.X. RATT - I will tell you how that went down and I would be curious as to your thoughts. Before we did any dyno pull, we checked the initial timing, total timing, and timing curve just to see where Shafiroff had set it. We expected it to be conservative just because the motor does come with a warranty. Here was baseline: 11 degree of initial timing, 29 degree total timing with all of the timing in at 2,800 rpms. We then did a baseline pull to see where we were at. Next, we put in 3 degrees of initial timing to get initial timing of 14 degrees and total timing of 32 degrees and then did another dyno pull. At this point, the motor only picked up 8 HP. I had expected a bit more of an increase than that and since it was such a small increase, I decided to leave well enough alone as my number one priority yesterday was NOT to blow anything up. That being said, we left the timing as it was and started to tune from there. What would you have done at that point??
745400 - Head design for one. But, to be fair, I have a dyno I am looking at of a C6Z06 with cam, headers, airbox, tune and no cats that is putting down 556 rwhp and 482 rwtq. So, the peaks are higher than my setup. Interestingly enough, at 4,000 rpms my motor is up 45 rwhp and 70 rwtq over the Z06 motor. I will also say that my setup is a very 'mild' setup and I enjoy driving it a great deal.
B.
05-24-2007, 12:51 PM
#7
Safety Car
I would have pulled a plug and took a look at it. I am sure it will make more power at 36-38* of timing. What gas are you running in it? 99% of conventional BBC's make best power at 36-38* of timimng particulaly with decent gas in it.
05-24-2007, 05:37 PM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
So, you think to start easing up on the timing, check the plugs and see where we get?
Any surprise that the inital 3 degrees of timing did not get us more HP?
Also, does the initial timing look good to you?
Thanks for your expertise and clean up your Private messages when you get a minute.
Bryan
05-24-2007, 07:14 PM
#9
Pro
Member Since: Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 47 Likes
on
25 Posts
How many cubes? I think you'll do better with more timing as well. Your A/F ratio seemed a bit on the lean side to me, below what 4 grand or so. Max hp is typically in the 12.5-12.7 range. If it were me, I'd fatten it up just a bit also. Remember, one thing, and one thing only, makes hp, and that is burning fuel. Every last thing we do to make more hp is in support of burning that fuel. So don't short change yourself by running leaner than optimum. Of course I'm talking about WFO throttle here, not cruising.
05-24-2007, 07:37 PM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
How many cubes? I think you'll do better with more timing as well. Your A/F ratio seemed a bit on the lean side to me, below what 4 grand or so. Max hp is typically in the 12.5-12.7 range. If it were me, I'd fatten it up just a bit also. Remember, one thing, and one thing only, makes hp, and that is burning fuel. Every last thing we do to make more hp is in support of burning that fuel. So don't short change yourself by running leaner than optimum. Of course I'm talking about WFO throttle here, not cruising.
I agree with you on the air fuel. We ended up jetting up to 90 for the primaries and 92 for the secondaries just to get us to 13.0. Car was stumbling a bit at cruising speed because of the large jets so we have to do a bit of work on the carb before hitting the dyno again. My goal is a 12.5 air fuel as well.
I plan to hit the dyno again late next week with the carb dialed in (dropping back down to 87/89 jets) and playing with the timing a bit more.
Any more direction you would offer up?
B.
05-24-2007, 09:28 PM
#11
Racer
ajrothm - It is a 700 hp motor. TKO-600, Ford 9", 3" exhaust with dynomax mufflers.
69 N.O.X. RATT - I will tell you how that went down and I would be curious as to your thoughts. Before we did any dyno pull, we checked the initial timing, total timing, and timing curve just to see where Shafiroff had set it. We expected it to be conservative just because the motor does come with a warranty. Here was baseline: 11 degree of initial timing, 29 degree total timing with all of the timing in at 2,800 rpms. We then did a baseline pull to see where we were at. Next, we put in 3 degrees of initial timing to get initial timing of 14 degrees and total timing of 32 degrees and then did another dyno pull. At this point, the motor only picked up 8 HP. I had expected a bit more of an increase than that and since it was such a small increase, I decided to leave well enough alone as my number one priority yesterday was NOT to blow anything up. That being said, we left the timing as it was and started to tune from there. What would you have done at that point??
745400 - Head design for one. But, to be fair, I have a dyno I am looking at of a C6Z06 with cam, headers, airbox, tune and no cats that is putting down 556 rwhp and 482 rwtq. So, the peaks are higher than my setup. Interestingly enough, at 4,000 rpms my motor is up 45 rwhp and 70 rwtq over the Z06 motor. I will also say that my setup is a very 'mild' setup and I enjoy driving it a great deal.
B.
69 N.O.X. RATT - I will tell you how that went down and I would be curious as to your thoughts. Before we did any dyno pull, we checked the initial timing, total timing, and timing curve just to see where Shafiroff had set it. We expected it to be conservative just because the motor does come with a warranty. Here was baseline: 11 degree of initial timing, 29 degree total timing with all of the timing in at 2,800 rpms. We then did a baseline pull to see where we were at. Next, we put in 3 degrees of initial timing to get initial timing of 14 degrees and total timing of 32 degrees and then did another dyno pull. At this point, the motor only picked up 8 HP. I had expected a bit more of an increase than that and since it was such a small increase, I decided to leave well enough alone as my number one priority yesterday was NOT to blow anything up. That being said, we left the timing as it was and started to tune from there. What would you have done at that point??
745400 - Head design for one. But, to be fair, I have a dyno I am looking at of a C6Z06 with cam, headers, airbox, tune and no cats that is putting down 556 rwhp and 482 rwtq. So, the peaks are higher than my setup. Interestingly enough, at 4,000 rpms my motor is up 45 rwhp and 70 rwtq over the Z06 motor. I will also say that my setup is a very 'mild' setup and I enjoy driving it a great deal.
B.
05-24-2007, 10:07 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
Did you get a dyno sheet with this from them? Seems to me that if it is making 700HP at the flywheel it should be around 595 at the rear wheels based on a typical 15% loss through the powertrain and accessories. 537HP is still alot of zip but seems like it should be more.
Yes, I did get a dyno sheet. I am satisifed enough with the rwhp numbers as they are close to what my vette is making with the 468 I have in it (which is not making too much less than the 540 in the camaro).
What I find interesting is that some of Camaro's that I have seen that have motors that make more flywheel horsepower than mine have made less rwhp than mine. Strange.
Another mind bender is that the GM ZZ502 that is in a corvette members C3 put down something like 400 rwhp (502 flywheel HP) and the 505 flywheel HP C6Z06 puts down something like 450 rwhp stock. Again, strange.
I don't claim to know too much about what all of this means. What I do know is that I have had a variety of high HP cars and I can say that this Camaro runs like crazy. If it does not trap close to 130 mph in the quarter, I would be surprised.
B.
05-24-2007, 10:10 PM
#13
Advanced
05-24-2007, 11:00 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
Did you get a dyno sheet with this from them? Seems to me that if it is making 700HP at the flywheel it should be around 595 at the rear wheels based on a typical 15% loss through the powertrain and accessories. 537HP is still alot of zip but seems like it should be more.
I think his numbers are pretty close to accurate. No way there is only a 15% drivetrain loss going though heavy driveshafts and a 9" ford.
More like 20-25%. The type of tires will also affect the dyno.
It would be worse on his vette, the IRS is a HP killer. 30% with an auto and tight converter is average.
Either way that camaro is gonna haul ***. If it hooks and doesn't break, thats a mid 10 sec car.
05-24-2007, 11:20 PM
#15
Racer
ajrothm - It is a 700 hp motor. TKO-600, Ford 9", 3" exhaust with dynomax mufflers.
69 N.O.X. RATT - I will tell you how that went down and I would be curious as to your thoughts. Before we did any dyno pull, we checked the initial timing, total timing, and timing curve just to see where Shafiroff had set it. We expected it to be conservative just because the motor does come with a warranty. Here was baseline: 11 degree of initial timing, 29 degree total timing with all of the timing in at 2,800 rpms. We then did a baseline pull to see where we were at. Next, we put in 3 degrees of initial timing to get initial timing of 14 degrees and total timing of 32 degrees and then did another dyno pull. At this point, the motor only picked up 8 HP. I had expected a bit more of an increase than that and since it was such a small increase, I decided to leave well enough alone as my number one priority yesterday was NOT to blow anything up. That being said, we left the timing as it was and started to tune from there. What would you have done at that point??
745400 - Head design for one. But, to be fair, I have a dyno I am looking at of a C6Z06 with cam, headers, airbox, tune and no cats that is putting down 556 rwhp and 482 rwtq. So, the peaks are higher than my setup. Interestingly enough, at 4,000 rpms my motor is up 45 rwhp and 70 rwtq over the Z06 motor. I will also say that my setup is a very 'mild' setup and I enjoy driving it a great deal.
B.
69 N.O.X. RATT - I will tell you how that went down and I would be curious as to your thoughts. Before we did any dyno pull, we checked the initial timing, total timing, and timing curve just to see where Shafiroff had set it. We expected it to be conservative just because the motor does come with a warranty. Here was baseline: 11 degree of initial timing, 29 degree total timing with all of the timing in at 2,800 rpms. We then did a baseline pull to see where we were at. Next, we put in 3 degrees of initial timing to get initial timing of 14 degrees and total timing of 32 degrees and then did another dyno pull. At this point, the motor only picked up 8 HP. I had expected a bit more of an increase than that and since it was such a small increase, I decided to leave well enough alone as my number one priority yesterday was NOT to blow anything up. That being said, we left the timing as it was and started to tune from there. What would you have done at that point??
745400 - Head design for one. But, to be fair, I have a dyno I am looking at of a C6Z06 with cam, headers, airbox, tune and no cats that is putting down 556 rwhp and 482 rwtq. So, the peaks are higher than my setup. Interestingly enough, at 4,000 rpms my motor is up 45 rwhp and 70 rwtq over the Z06 motor. I will also say that my setup is a very 'mild' setup and I enjoy driving it a great deal.
B.
05-24-2007, 11:31 PM
#16
Racer
I think his numbers are pretty close to accurate. No way there is only a 15% drivetrain loss going though heavy driveshafts and a 9" ford.
More like 20-25%. The type of tires will also affect the dyno.
It would be worse on his vette, the IRS is a HP killer. 30% with an auto and tight converter is average.
Either way that camaro is gonna haul ***. If it hooks and doesn't break, thats a mid 10 sec car.
More like 20-25%. The type of tires will also affect the dyno.
It would be worse on his vette, the IRS is a HP killer. 30% with an auto and tight converter is average.
Either way that camaro is gonna haul ***. If it hooks and doesn't break, thats a mid 10 sec car.
05-24-2007, 11:41 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
Interesting. I agree with you on the camaro vs. vette power to the rear wheels issue. I have a 1968 Firebird with a 455 and it doesn't seem to put down the power to rear wheels as efficiently as my vette does either. Despite having the same trans. I suspect part of it is the straight axle rearend. In your case the 9" ford is bullet proof but it will suck some power. Did you buy the 540/695 classic. I have been thinking about that motor as well. Were you happy with all aspects of the purchase, etc. Any problems?
I did buy the classic with a few differences: 1). Classic comes with a dominator setup and I opted for the 4150 style carb for drivability. 2). I went with a hyd. roller instead of the solid 3). A bit better heads 4). A few build differences (aluminum block, bottom end components, etc).
Motor dropped right in and fired RIGHT up. It's been problem free and I am very satisfied.
Bryan
05-24-2007, 11:45 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Wow! You really think 30% with an auto. Can't speak to that as I have never owned one. But I think that is way to high for a stick. My 489 dynoed 538HP at 6000 and 550 ft lbs at 4300. At the track it had a trap speed of 120. With me in it the car weighed 3500. On my power speed calculator that is about 470 HP at the rear wheels. If I add back in 15% I get about 540 HP at the flywheel which is very close to my engine dyno runs.
B.
05-25-2007, 12:02 AM
#19
Racer
Now I really wish I would have chassis dynoed the car. Unfortunately, I'll never have the chance as it was in an accident and totalled. All I have to go on are the engine dyno and the dragstrip trap speed. Based on your chassis dyno results, mine seem to optimistic, but I am pretty sure I did the slide rule right. Will you be drag racing the car?Would be interesting to see what kind of rear wheel horsepower it shows at the track. In any event, its going to scream. Sounds like a really nice motor.
05-25-2007, 12:29 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
Wow! You really think 30% with an auto. Can't speak to that as I have never owned one. But I think that is way to high for a stick. My 489 dynoed 538HP at 6000 and 550 ft lbs at 4300. At the track it had a trap speed of 120. With me in it the car weighed 3500. On my power speed calculator that is about 470 HP at the rear wheels. If I add back in 15% I get about 540 HP at the flywheel which is very close to my engine dyno runs.
As for 30% DT loss, yes thats high. I should have mentioned thats through a TH400 and IRS, with a stock fan and mech fuel pump.
I would say on a stick car with straight axle and clutch fan, 20% is an accurate number.
Your car trap'n 120 is haul'n ***. I would say it would take 450rwhp to go 120mph at 3500lbs raceweight on a good setup car.
I guess i just always thought 15% was a little low, even for efficient setups. Hell I wouldn't care if I was trap'n 120mph...LOL
