[Z06] Forum Question: Accident
#1
Forum Question: Accident
Three days ago while driving in las Vegas, I was passing some slower traffic and accelerating at about half throttle in third gear (about 50/60 mph) when the car abruptly made a 90 degree right hand turn with zero contol (competitive driving mode on). No amount of correction seemed to work as the brakes afforded no help either. The car spun a 720, hit another SUV (lightly) and proceeded to curb facing the opposite way before going airborne three feet and coming to rest in the dirt enbankment/ditch between two light poles. It was clear, no oil or other contaminants on the road surface visible and absolutely no warning. The off-duty officer behind me said it looked like a blow-out of the left rear but it acted like a catastrophic parts failure (like CV or half shaft), locking a wheel? Anyone heard of anything like this anywhere else? Damage estimates are near the $24,000 mark. Was ticketed for a "unsafe" lane change. Strange as I was going straight when it happened and wasn't even shifting or changing lanes. Guess I didn't signal when I was out of control???
Last edited by ICU812; 02-24-2007 at 05:01 AM.
#3
Race Director
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Sorry to read of your misfortune.
Couple questions.
Night or daytime?
What was the air temp?
How far had the car been driven?
A characteristic behavior of the C6Z tires is poor traction at cold temps, meaning a combination of road surface temp and tire temp.
If you were to add to that
(1) a steering wheel not center, eg turned to render a lane change AND
(2) application of throttle, even 3d at 50-60
Then you have a combination that will unsettle the car.
Most owners have experienced that combination, but were fortunate to have different results than you did.
Ranger
Couple questions.
Night or daytime?
What was the air temp?
How far had the car been driven?
A characteristic behavior of the C6Z tires is poor traction at cold temps, meaning a combination of road surface temp and tire temp.
If you were to add to that
(1) a steering wheel not center, eg turned to render a lane change AND
(2) application of throttle, even 3d at 50-60
Then you have a combination that will unsettle the car.
Most owners have experienced that combination, but were fortunate to have different results than you did.
Ranger
#4
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2006
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Three days ago while driving in las Vegas, I was passing some slower traffic and accelerating at about half throttle in third gear (about 50/60 mph) when the car abruptly made a 90 degree right hand turn with zero contol (competitive driving mode on). No amount of correction seemed to work as the brakes afforded no help either. The car spun a 720, hit another SUV (lightly) and proceeded to curb facing the opposite way before going airborne three feet and coming to rest in the dirt enbankment/ditch between two light poles. It was clear, no oil or other contaminants on the road surface visible and absolutely no warning. The off-duty officer behind me said it looked like a blow-out of the left rear but it acted like a catastrophic parts failure (like CV or half shaft), locking a wheel? Anyone heard of anything like this anywhere else? Damage estimates are near the $24,000 mark. Was ticketed for a "unsafe" lane change. Strange as I was going straight when it happened and wasn't even shifting or changing lanes. Guess I didn't signal when I was out of control???
trapp
#6
Le Mans Master
If you were cruising around in 3rd at that speed, i wouldn't think you would have anywhere near the torque for the car to suddenly go haywire like that. I have raced from a stop in 30 degree weather and didn't have any real problems of losing control of the car. Most be some foul plague involved here
#7
Le Mans Master
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Did a message or has a message appeared lately saying service active handling? Many have had that message and a few have had the active handling go haywire.
It has been said that if it goes haywire, you could lose control of the car.
It has been said that if it goes haywire, you could lose control of the car.
#8
Le Mans Master
Mike
#9
"Half-throttle" as described in the report could easily have been much more. Given it was Las Vegas, dust on the road surface, cold tires, too much power in Comp Mode, and a late correction are the likely culprits.
Sorry about the accident.
#10
Instructor
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Sorry to hear about your situation. I had a similar incident and thought about Gremlins, etc., even took my car back to the dealer to check the system. Was also passing in third gear and outside temp was 50. The car fishtailed hard to the left ("90 degree right turn") and I fought to get it back, over corrected and went the other way. Straightened it out and bumped the car in front of me (both doing about 60 mph). No where near your damage, but scuffed the paint and had to repaint the fascia ($475). I was in normal driving mode when this happened. I imagine it’s much worse in competition. I joined CF mainly due to this event (to see what happened) and have learned much (Thanks CF members!) about the tires and the TC system. My previous '03C5 Stage2 acted COMPLETELY different under similar conditions. Frankly, it was difficult to get in trouble with my C5 and the exact opposite in the C6Z. Bottom line is you really need to “get on it” slower (slower than stomping your foot to the floor – like I do!) in the lower gears, the tires can be very squirrelly in lower temps (55 or less) and the traction control has been set in such a way as to allow owners of these beasts to enjoy them (not overly controlled by the computers). Again, sorry to hear about your mishap. I am sure we are not the only members of this particular club. (Got to admit, it was quite the ride – and I got off pretty easy.)
#11
Ranger-Answer
Sorry to read of your misfortune.
Couple questions.
Night or daytime?
What was the air temp?
How far had the car been driven?
A characteristic behavior of the C6Z tires is poor traction at cold temps, meaning a combination of road surface temp and tire temp.
If you were to add to that
(1) a steering wheel not center, eg turned to render a lane change AND
(2) application of throttle, even 3d at 50-60
Then you have a combination that will unsettle the car.
Most owners have experienced that combination, but were fortunate to have different results than you did.
Ranger
Couple questions.
Night or daytime?
What was the air temp?
How far had the car been driven?
A characteristic behavior of the C6Z tires is poor traction at cold temps, meaning a combination of road surface temp and tire temp.
If you were to add to that
(1) a steering wheel not center, eg turned to render a lane change AND
(2) application of throttle, even 3d at 50-60
Then you have a combination that will unsettle the car.
Most owners have experienced that combination, but were fortunate to have different results than you did.
Ranger
#12
Race Director
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: Central Florida
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It was daytime, about 70 degrees. Was going absolutely straight and was not changing lanes. Had been going straight for about 5 seconds when it happened....Wierdest thing with zero warning and car felt like it was on ice when trying to steer into slide with virtually no brake control... Just wonder if a half shalf failure or CV joint could have caused this. Suspension is history so don't know if they will be able to tell.
I suspect that the rear got loose from the rear tires spinning, perhaps aggravated by dust/sand on the road surface. Unless the throttle is progressively squeezed, the driver can break the rear loose easily at 50-60 in 3d. I've done it. So have most owners.
Driving in Competitive Driving mode invokes the "permissive" form of Active Handling. Therein the computer allows move movement before intervention than it does in normal mode or Traction System Off.
Chevy has a lot of experience examining broken CV joints and the breakage occurs in a predictable form. So An inspection of the rear drive components and tires should reveal if a catastrophic failure were involved.
From your description I suspect, though, too much throttle for the available traction was the root cause, aggravated by the absense of aggressive Active Handling due to running in Comp mode. But even full AH can't overcome the laws of physics.
With less than 200 miles on the OD on warm tires at 60 mph, I downshifted to 3d and applied too much throttle. Rear got loose, very loose. AH intervened as I struggle to keep the car within the two lanes of my side of the interstate. Fortunately no other car were within 400 meters. Happy ending. But taught me (1)respect for the power of the car (2) the need to make smooth moves with the throttle and (3) the favorable outcome of staying off the brakes when the rear got loose.
Not trying to lecture here. Sorry for the bad situation you had. Just trying to share experiences that may shed light on what happened.
Last edited by Ranger; 02-24-2007 at 01:36 PM.
#13
Ranger Answers
I was about 6 miles from home and the throttle was contant at the time the "incident" occured. I had just gone (about 5-6 seconds earlier) from the center lane of a 6 lane (sligtly downhill) road to the fast lane to pass slower traffic and had already accelerated to a constant speed and was maintaining that speed (50-60) getting ready to move back over to the center but had not as of yet started any steering movement. If caught me totally off-guard as the car went suddenly 90 degrees to the left. When I tried to correct, it felt like it was on ice with zero control and proceed to do between a 360 and 720 in the curb before coming to a rest. I am nearly 60 and have been drag and road racing cars all my life (this is my third ZO6) and also had 2 ZR-1s, plus other Vette's etc. This was all new to me. Love new experiences but not this kind. Thanks for the help. Just wanted opinions as to whether it could have been parts failure or I need to go back to driver's school.
#14
Leeds.io
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I was about 6 miles from home and the throttle was contant at the time the "incident" occured. I had just gone (about 5-6 seconds earlier) from the center lane of a 6 lane (sligtly downhill) road to the fast lane to pass slower traffic and had already accelerated to a constant speed and was maintaining that speed (50-60) getting ready to move back over to the center but had not as of yet started any steering movement. If caught me totally off-guard as the car went suddenly 90 degrees to the left. When I tried to correct, it felt like it was on ice with zero control and proceed to do between a 360 and 720 in the curb before coming to a rest. I am nearly 60 and have been drag and road racing cars all my life (this is my third ZO6) and also had 2 ZR-1s, plus other Vette's etc. This was all new to me. Love new experiences but not this kind. Thanks for the help. Just wanted opinions as to whether it could have been parts failure or I need to go back to driver's school.
#15
Melting Slicks
To me, and I'm nobody, I'd say the active handling system freaked out on you. I've heard of this happening a couple times way back in the day with C5's. If you weren't on it I don't see how the rear could have just broke on you. It's possible of course...hell you never know when your roof could just fly off. Again I think the computer did it. Can't they check out what was going on with the electronics? Look into it. Computer's do make mistakes. It's a proven fact and a scary one at that.
#16
Le Mans Master
if its under 60 degrees, I'd say 6 miles isn't near enough to warm up the tires. I can't believe how long it takes (oil temp, too). The car can be downright scary when cold and on a cold road surface. those rear tires can resemble skim boards
#17
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In my opinion...
It sounds like a "parts" failure or an ABS/active handling system hiccup to me.
That's the only thing it could be if it instantly turned you 90 degrees and you weren't getting on it!
That's the only thing it could be if it instantly turned you 90 degrees and you weren't getting on it!
#18
Race Director
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Did the airbags deploy in the impact? If so, the Blackbox has the last 15-20 seconds of the main PCM info. If you do suspect a mechanical issue, you can ask the insurance company to pull the data for analysis. But of course that cuts both ways.
Ranger
Ranger
#19
Safety Car
I see three possibilities:
1. Active handling computer went crazy
2. Mechanical failure somewhere in the drive train
3. Driver error, most likely a distant maybe
Must get to the bottom of this and see what the cause was, if it's a computer glitch/mechanical failure then GM have got son esplaynin to do.
As to the car, as sad as it is, it's replacable as you know, main thing you were OK.
Please post updates.
1. Active handling computer went crazy
2. Mechanical failure somewhere in the drive train
3. Driver error, most likely a distant maybe
Must get to the bottom of this and see what the cause was, if it's a computer glitch/mechanical failure then GM have got son esplaynin to do.
As to the car, as sad as it is, it's replacable as you know, main thing you were OK.
Please post updates.
#20
Burning Brakes
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Thanks for the elaboration.
I suspect that the rear got loose from the rear tires spinning, perhaps aggravated by dust/sand on the road surface. Unless the throttle is progressively squeezed, the driver can break the rear loose easily at 50-60 in 3d. I've done it. So have most owners.
Driving in Competitive Driving mode invokes the "permissive" form of Active Handling. Therein the computer allows move movement before intervention than it does in normal mode or Traction System Off.
Chevy has a lot of experience examining broken CV joints and the breakage occurs in a predictable form. So An inspection of the rear drive components and tires should reveal if a catastrophic failure were involved.
From your description I suspect, though, too much throttle for the available traction was the root cause, aggravated by the absense of aggressive Active Handling due to running in Comp mode. But even full AH can't overcome the laws of physics.
With less than 200 miles on the OD on warm tires at 60 mph, I downshifted to 3d and applied too much throttle. Rear got loose, very loose. AH intervened as I struggle to keep the car within the two lanes of my side of the interstate. Fortunately no other car were within 400 meters. Happy ending. But taught me (1)respect for the power of the car (2) the need to make smooth moves with the throttle and (3) the favorable outcome of staying off the brakes when the rear got loose.
Not trying to lecture here. Sorry for the bad situation you had. Just trying to share experiences that may shed light on what happened.
I suspect that the rear got loose from the rear tires spinning, perhaps aggravated by dust/sand on the road surface. Unless the throttle is progressively squeezed, the driver can break the rear loose easily at 50-60 in 3d. I've done it. So have most owners.
Driving in Competitive Driving mode invokes the "permissive" form of Active Handling. Therein the computer allows move movement before intervention than it does in normal mode or Traction System Off.
Chevy has a lot of experience examining broken CV joints and the breakage occurs in a predictable form. So An inspection of the rear drive components and tires should reveal if a catastrophic failure were involved.
From your description I suspect, though, too much throttle for the available traction was the root cause, aggravated by the absense of aggressive Active Handling due to running in Comp mode. But even full AH can't overcome the laws of physics.
With less than 200 miles on the OD on warm tires at 60 mph, I downshifted to 3d and applied too much throttle. Rear got loose, very loose. AH intervened as I struggle to keep the car within the two lanes of my side of the interstate. Fortunately no other car were within 400 meters. Happy ending. But taught me (1)respect for the power of the car (2) the need to make smooth moves with the throttle and (3) the favorable outcome of staying off the brakes when the rear got loose.
Not trying to lecture here. Sorry for the bad situation you had. Just trying to share experiences that may shed light on what happened.
trapp